WTC First Responder and my first post

[debra]

Anne, so weird you mentioned talc, as I used that later, but was already sick, from the damn silica! Funny the morons that come here to teach on preventing bugs, actually recommend both! This is how i learned of the talc! Talc is also involved in causing ovarian cancer... I never used any of this garbage, till my neighbor, shirly got bedbugs in 2010. Rest in peace Shirley... So this is life....... Me. Xo

[drz]

Asbestos has often been mentioned as a possible contributor to Wegs along with infections. I worked for years in a old building that had lots of asbestos everywhere. Two of us out of a staff of few hundred came down with Wegs and twice that many with MS, and twice that many with other supposedly rare diseases as well as numerous cases of various cancer. Our inside joke was we couldn't afford to retire because whenever anyone retired, it seemed they would get sick or die within a year or two and many did. We also had high levels of other pollution from a garbage burner right outside our building that burned garbage to heat the large facility. The fumes often came in through our windows and air conditioners.

[debra]

Drz, hello! Drz, this is interesting! Drz, if I could only pick one, my gut, hoes with the garbage burning... Ingnore that hoe! I meant goes.. Drz, they had this thing on tv, back about a month or so, on the fire department men, I think from Mass., and how they all came down with cancers and rare diseases. Again I wonder how many are Wg, cases in diagnosed, un, not in! Why are some letters such an issue? Anyway, this fascinates me.... Drz, thank you for this! Deb.

[drz]

Drz, hello! Drz, this is interesting! Drz, if I could only pick one, my gut, hoes with the garbage burning... Ingnore that hoe! I meant goes.. Drz, they had this thing on tv, back about a month or so, on the fire department men, I think from Mass., and how they all came down with cancers and rare diseases. Again I wonder how many are Wg, cases in diagnosed, un, not in! Why are some letters such an issue? Anyway, this fascinates me.... Drz, thank you for this! Deb.

Fire fighters would certainly be exposed to lot smoke from burning very toxic substances plus lot of ash and these could be causal factors. And the job certainly would offer plenty of stress.

[debra]

Drz, hi! Drz, I think it was on cronicle, news magazine show, ABC t think. I'm learning tv, is real different all over, but youtube, would probably have it. Anne, hi, Anne, I believe you're also exposed to bentonite clay. Also not good. Asbestos t would assume if the wall or whatever has been handled in some way, that causes that powder like stuff to circulate. Interesting to see what people have worked with, or around.... Deb.

[annekat]

Drz, hi! Drz, I think it was on cronicle, news magazine show, ABC t think. I'm learning tv, is real different all over, but youtube, would probably have it. Anne, hi, Anne, I believe you're also exposed to bentonite clay. Also not good. Asbestos t would assume if the wall or whatever has been handled in some way, that causes that powder like stuff to circulate. Interesting to see what people have worked with, or around.... Deb.

I believe asbestos exposure is a more serious as a public health problem overall than silica exposure, because so many buildings were built with it for so long before they knew the danger. I knew someone who died of mesothelioma, a cancer in the lungs caused directly by asbestos, which his work exposed him to on an everyday basis. My sister is in the public health field and works with asbestos removal companies, not doing that work herself, but overseeing, inspecting, etc., and knows a lot about it.

Deb, I am exposed to clay, period, it doesn't matter if it is bentonite or any other kind of clay, the two ingredients in all clay are kaolin and silica. Bentonite refers more to where it is mined, etc, and it has some properties other clays don't have of keeping glazes in suspension, and is used in very small amounts for that purpose. I think most cat litter has it, too. The clay that I make pots with probably has no bentonite in it but it doesn't matter, clay is clay, and it all contains silica. (As for kaolin, the other ingredient in clay, that is what they make Kaopectate out of.) Silica is the glass forming ingredient in clay, and all clay and glazes have it. As long as the materials are being used in the wet state, and there is no dust, there is no problem. Keeping the workspace clean, wet mopping, good filtered vacuums, room air cleaners, etc., are important in cutting down on dust. And of course wearing a mask. We all know that. A respirator is even better, and I would think imperative in really hazardous situations like asbestos removal or spending time at the WTC site.

[debra]

Anne, hi. I always saw asbestos as being involved in lung cancer, and mesothelioma.. if I had to choose to be exposed to one, I'd pick the asbestos. Unless its being disrupted, sme how, like construction, because of the fine powder that it releases. I see silica, as being the wegeners causing factor here. Not saying all of coarse, just my opinion.. forgive my typo, up there... People will never Realy know, unless they do something as stupid as me, what they have been exposed to... I also don't believe the study's. Things are with held from the public, and that's just reality. I also don't believe its that rare, and I never will. Sorry, I'm not buying it. People are dying undiagnosed, probably quite frequently, of this. Don't want to ruffle feathers, but I believe different than most here, I guess on this whole wegeners thing. Im honest and just speak my mind. This disease deserves more attention, and I don't see this either. Maybe someday, but after how many die, never knowing why? Deb.

[annekat]

Anne, hi. I always saw asbestos as being involved in lung cancer, and mesothelioma.. if I had to choose to be exposed to one, I'd pick the asbestos. Unless its being disrupted, sme how, like construction, because of the fine powder that it releases. I see silica, as being the wegeners causing factor here. Not saying all of coarse, just my opinion.. forgive my typo, up there... People will never Realy know, unless they do something as stupid as me, what they have been exposed to... I also don't believe the study's. Things are with held from the public, and that's just reality. I also don't believe its that rare, and I never will. Sorry, I'm not buying it. People are dying undiagnosed, probably quite frequently, of this. Don't want to ruffle feathers, but I believe different than most here, I guess on this whole wegeners thing. Im honest and just speak my mind. This disease deserves more attention, and I don't see this either. Maybe someday, but after how many die, never knowing why? Deb.

Deb, I have no doubt silica and other substances can easily be a trigger for Wegs, as can infections, and that there is a genetic predisposition that makes some more likely to get it than others. That's what the most recent research points to according to what I've read on this forum and elsewhere. I did not say that asbestos was a bigger problem than silica in causing Wegs, I suggested that it has been a bigger public health problem overall, over the last 75 years or so, than silica, because if its widespread use in building and the numbers of people exposed to it without knowing the dangers, and later coming up with fatal conditions just as bad as Wegs. A coal miner who got WG from his work might disagree because he sees it personally. If you got Wegs from silica, it doesn't mean that it is the only cause or there are not worse, or just as bad, things out there affecting just as many people. But I am not minimizing the importance of silica and Wegs. As a potter, I've always heard of people getting silicosis, which is different than Wegs, but I still believe silica can trigger WG and the people who've talked about silicosis knew nothing of WG, just as the people who've talked of asbestos may also have been overlooking WG as a possible result thru lack of knowledge. I keep going back to my memory of watching The Dust Bowl on PBS and seeing accounts of many children and others dying of lung conditions due to the dust they inhaled. They just died and were buried. We don't know if they had WG, silicosis, cancer, or if their lungs were just so clogged up with dirt that they failed completely. I don't know the time frame, how fast they declined and died, whether they had WG symptoms or not, and why some were affected so much more than others. I think that many of them must have had WG or other autoimmune conditions, and even more, I think the people who survived this and made it to California or wherever, or who remained in Oklahoma, must have had a high incidence of problems later, including WG, that were never diagnosed. This is only speculation and was not addressed in the documentary. I totally agree with you that there have been many dying of undiagnosed Wegs, since we haven't even known about it that long, and that it is not as rare as they say, and that it deserves more attention. That does not ruffle feathers, because it is only repeating what has been said over and over on this forum since the day I started reading it.

[annekat]

I should add, asbestos is not NOW the problem that it was, because it is no longer used and we know how to remove it safely. There could still be the odd house or building containing it that has been overlooked or the residents are ignorantly removing it themselves without proper procedures. I wasn't thinking of people living or working in these buildings with it being undisturbed as being the ones in danger. It was the people involved in the construction or demolition of any of these buildings, before we knew of the dangers, not to mention those working in the factories that made the asbestos panels, and there must have been a lot of them. The guy I knew who died of mesothelioma was probably in his 70's, ten years ago, so the people affected who are still alive are probably pretty few and far between nowadays. So yes, we could say that silica exposure is more of a problem NOW, and especially it's connection to WG, since people are so much less aware. The fact remains that silica is everywhere and we can't get rid of it. We can only avoid putting ourselves in situations where clouds of dust of fine particles of it are being raised and we are breathing it.

[debra]

Anne, hi. I just wanted to say, these two paragraphs you wrote, are very good... Anne, I'm glad you post frequently, a true asset to this group... Man, I wish people posted more. This group could Realy kick, a**. Not many seem as active, and I realize people have lives, get well ect. But post on how you're life is going, now that you killed the dog, or got him quiet from barking. Post about the bedbugs you hope you never get! Post about you're love for the color blue... Anything... Surely I can't be the only one with weird things happening to my body, with this? How's everyone's tongue? Ya, not many I guess with oral involvement.... Thanks Anne! Deb, with love... XoXO