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Thread: Chronic sinus infections, bronchitis, and nasal rinses.

  1. #11
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    Mike's post has a lot of good info. I wonder about flooding the sinus cavities by blocking the exit so the saline solution builds up inside. The flooding technique has been used by others and seems likely to improve the cleaning of a rinse but wouldn't it also increase the risk of forcing liquid into the Eustachian tubes and middle ear where it could do a lot of damage. Some people have had this experience from the squeeze bottles as noted in earlier posts.

    I did try my Grossan powered rinser today
    Amazon.com: Grossan Hydro Pulse Nasal and Sinus Irrigation System with the Original Grossan Sinus Tip: Health & Personal Care
    and experimented with settings. Even at the highest setting it is still very slow when compared to a NeilMed squeeze bottle. I did note though that because of it's slower flow that the solution stays in the nasal and sinus areas longer which might help with cleaning things out. It also takes a lot longer to empty the reservoir of solution and the process of holding the nasal irrigator tip against the nostril is a lot more uncomfortable that using a squeeze bottle in a few second intervals. The pulsing action though is suppose to assist with the cleaning of the sinuses and since one filling on the Grossan equals two squeeze bottles of solution, it seemed as effective as two rinses with a squeeze bottle which can be done quicker with more force. But the NeilMed squeeze bottle seems too forceful for some people and they might find the slower and more gentle power machines more comfortable for them to use.

    The addition of a steroid additive sounds real promising to help stop the continual bleeding i now have in the sinuses and I will seek out some ENT doctors to inquire about such an additive.

    The idea of getting each infection cultured is also great idea but I found I only was able to get that done routinely when an inpatient. Maybe if I find a good ENT doctor I might be able to get this done when needed.

    I also like the idea of making an antibiotic solution by dissolving Bactroban in saline. I never considered such a possibility but have read about people dissolving antibiotic pills in their rinse solutions.

    I wonder about post nasal drip being caused by GERD. I have had it for years, probably long before my GERD was diagnosed. Has anyone found taking some additive like lemon juice or apple cider vinegar to help reduce post nasal drip or even the GERD. I guess these additives would be safe to try and rather easy to do so might be worth a trial.
    Knowledge is power! Wisdom is using it to make good decisions!

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    Hi drz,
    As far as GERD, they have found it is the pepsin enzyme that lives in the upper throat and upper respiratory tract that attacks tissues and lowering their ph stops there attack. There was a study showing alkaline water at a ph of 8.8 irreversibly stopped the pepsin enzyme.
    However, I tried a nasal rinse with alkaline water on my mom and it didn't stop her cough. I didn't do it daily for a week to see if it would help. I should try it for longer to see if her nasal issues stop.

    Potential benefits of pH 8.8 alkaline drinking water as an adjunct ... - PubMed - NCBI

    Lemon juice and ACV can alkalize the throat and digestive tract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by im so blessed View Post
    Maybe i need to post this elsewhere...but i use to use the nielmed rinse until it went into my inner ear and caused a very painful ear infection. It felt like swimmers ear when it happened..but got very painful so i dont use them anymore.
    You do need to be careful of that.... use a gentler squeeze. One way to get a gentler flow is to loosen the cap of the NeilMed bottle a bit. i wouldn't give up on sinus rinsing. Maybe find another device that allows you to control the strength of the flow. I don't know if the Water Pik is adjustable in that way. I do know there is a nasal attachment you can get for it. And I've seen some pulsating rinse systems online or in stores, as long as you could control the pulse. I've gotten water in my ear a few times without it causing an infection. But I'm sorry that happened to you, and maybe you have eustachian tubes that are too open, instead of the more common case with WG of them being too closed, which can also cause ear infections.
    Anne, dx'ed April 2011

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    Drz, that's a good summary of ways people deal with this. I'll just echo a couple of them that have worked for me. Inhaling steam is great before a sinus rinse to loosen things up, and I think works better than a hot shower, which also helps. I use peppermint in a bowl of steaming water and it is pleasant. It is time consuming and I rarely do it now that my nasal problems are a lot better. Also, I've used the baby shampoo and the Alkalol successfully. At this point, with less severe problems, I'd go for the Alkalol, since it has a pleasant and soothing effect. I agree with the need to be careful and not use too strong a solution... I would not follow the instructions on the bottle that imply you can use it full strength. In the NeilMed bottle, I only use a little splash of it, maybe a half a teaspoon, maybe more; experimenting is important. Also, I agree that if you are doing a few rinses in one sitting, save the Alkalol for last, for the nice, refreshing feeling!
    Anne, dx'ed April 2011

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    There was discussion on these issues on other threads too and I will try copy some of the better ones to add here when I find them.

    I saw an ENT doctor who knew something about GPA. I was her second such patient that day. Most of the ones I have seen have never seen a GPA case before.

    She did a culture on my nasal area and said it was OK but also prescribe some Mupirocin (Bactroban ) solution for a rinse daily for a month and then return. The Mupirocin solution has to be made special at their pharmacy and I have not received it yet. They take the ointment and shake it up till it is a liquid that will get into the sinuses where it can do some good. I used Mupirocin for my infection around my BAHA site last year. I think it is treatment of first choice for staph or MRSA infections but it requires some work to get it as only a few pharmacies have the equipment to make the solution.

    She said my homemade solution of saline water, baking soda, baby shampoo and peroxide was OK as long as the peroxide concentration was very low since if it was too strong it might do some damage to the skin and then cause more bleeding. Generally she supported my idea that anything that stings or burns during the rinses might be doing more harm than good. One exception would be plain tap water that is not buffered with salt or baking soda.

    I still have some bleeding and blood clots at times from my rinses but generally after using the Grossan Hydro Pulse frequently I notice my nose works more like it is supposed to work with mucous naturally working its way out my nose so I often have to blow my nose again which I had not done for years.

    The sinus infections and bronchitis seem either gone or much improved. Coughing is no longer a problem right now and fatigue is also reduced.. My labs also suggest the infections are either gone or not very prominent now. My Sed rate is still very high but the CRP is back to normal range so hope the SED will follow soon as I am having labs now every two weeks till I am deemed back in a good drug induced remission. My joints still have more pain than I would like but it is much less now than a month or two ago.
    Knowledge is power! Wisdom is using it to make good decisions!

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    Knowledge is power! Wisdom is using it to make good decisions!

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    it sounds like some good news drz!
    Praying the sed rate comes down and u r back in remission soon!

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    Well, since the MRSA- AAV thread was closed for some reason I will continue here with where I left off in that discussion. I would prefer to continue the discussion in the original thread but I can't.
    I apologize to others here if this thread is closed for the same reason- whatever that is.
    All I have seen is people trying to help themselves, people they care about and each other.

    When I was last talking to Blake we were talking about the use of iodine and Ponaris - which contains iodine.
    I had an appointment with my ENT the next day and while I was waiting in "the chair" to get scoped I saw a notice on his office wall about a study they were doing comparing just plain saline rinse, with saline and iodine solution and with saline and mupiricin solution. I didn't even have to approach him from the angle of the discussion we were having here on the forum I just asked about the study.

    They are studying the compared effectiveness of these different solutions in the control of staph in the sinuses. The concentration of the iodine solution is close to the same as the one Blake outlined. The form of iodine they are using is Povidone. Betadine is equal to 10% povidone-iodine. The direction is to put 2.5 ml in a Neil med bottle that is 240ml.
    This makes an approximate 1% iodine solution.

    The saline for all the options is to be made with previously boiled or distilled water. (I currently just use well water. So this would be different for me) . The rinse for all the options is to be done twice daily. The doc said I could do more if I wanted to and also suggested that if I did more that I could do the medicated rinse as the last rinse.

    My sinus was cultured as part of my visit and if I am found to have staph still in my sinus then I will participate in this study. I will report my experience and the results of their study here.

    I think it carries some real significance because of the unique problem that staph presents for us weggies. The doctor agreed.

    Part of the protocol for all of the options is to shower every other day with the same soap they use before surgeries. Chlorhexidine gluconate 4% . The thinking is that because staph is present on the exterior of our bodies we might significantly reduce colonizing our sinuses by extra exterior hygiene.

    How interesting that my docs were concurrently working on the same idea Blake and I were exploring right here. Think about the consequences of the pursuit of knowledge and sharing of information being censored and discouraged here on this forum.

    Of course I'm hoping I don't have staph right now but if I do - I'm part of the study and will learn more than by not trying anything.

    I had a long chat with the doctor doing the study and she was very interested the discussion we had been having here.
    Good doctors LOVE informed and interested patients who are making efforts on their own behalf. Bad doctors want to treat you like an animal that should never have a thought or opinion.

    Insist on having a good doctor. Don't settle for a doctor that should have become a veterinarian. Good doctors enjoy and embrace the fact that they have fellow humans for patients. They do not look down on them as if they are somehow superior.

    I feel very blessed that I have such great doctors right now supporting me on this journey. It has not always been this way. I have suffered suppression and neglect under the 'care' of arrogant vet-shoulda-beens. This is a wildly out-dated model of the doctor/patient relationship.
    Last edited by me2; 02-25-2015 at 05:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtmeo View Post
    Hi drz,
    As far as GERD, they have found it is the pepsin enzyme that lives in the upper throat and upper respiratory tract that attacks tissues and lowering their ph stops there attack. There was a study showing alkaline water at a ph of 8.8 irreversibly stopped the pepsin enzyme.
    However, I tried a nasal rinse with alkaline water on my mom and it didn't stop her cough. I didn't do it daily for a week to see if it would help. I should try it for longer to see if her nasal issues stop.

    Potential benefits of pH 8.8 alkaline drinking water as an adjunct ... - PubMed - NCBI

    Lemon juice and ACV can alkalize the throat and digestive tract.
    This is very interesting. Thanks for sharing this. I have been on protonix for a LONG time due to GERD issues. I am currently working with my gastro doc to reduce my protonix dose. One large factor that the doc pointed out to me was that caffeine relaxes the muscles in the throat and contributes to GERD. So, for now I am stopping.

    Also, I have read that benzodiazapines can do the same thing. I think your mom used these too Blake? Unfortunately I have only been able to cut back on my use at this time. I use them for neurological damage caused by wg. I have hope that in time I can completely stop the benzo and hopefully lead to stopping protonix. Baby steps. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by me2 View Post
    Good doctors LOVE informed and interested patients who are making efforts on their own behalf. Bad doctors want to treat you like an animal that should never have a thought or opinion.

    Insist on having a good doctor. Don't settle for a doctor that should have become a veterinarian. Good doctors enjoy and embrace the fact that they have fellow humans for patients. They do not look down on them as if they are somehow superior.

    I feel very blessed that I have such great doctors right now supporting me on this journey. It has not always been this way. I have suffered suppression and neglect under the 'care' of arrogant vet-shoulda-beens. This is a wildly out-dated model of the doctor/patient relationship.
    What more can I say to this other than a hearty "AMEN SISTER!!" Well said. Well said!!
    MikeG-2012

    "You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"


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