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Thread: Flu vaccines

  1. #111
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    I'm also not a trained medical doctor, but I have to add one more opinion on this topic, and then I shall cease and desist. I feel compelled to write about it because it's hitting close to home right now. I just wrote about it on my blog, and I can't seem to articulate it the way it lives in my brain, but I'm giving it a go here, and I promise not to get upset if there's a tsunami of disagreement coming my way.

    Iatrogenic disease. I first heard the term in a 4th year Medical Anthropology seminar I was attending while at university. For those who haven't heard it, it's the disease and death caused by medical mistakes. This includes, vaccines, drug interactions, mistakes by medical practitioners, or things picked up while in hospitals. As most of us know, Alisia believes that Phil's passing was iatrogenic in cause, and I just buried a friend (who didn't have WG or anything else that was serious) and he passed away on November 9th. I am 100% sure he passed because he was prescribed two meds that shouldn't have been prescribed together and he died of internal bleeding. I, a lay person, went on line to look up the meds on his most recent medical prescription record (filled less than a week before his passing) and I can see all the warnings, and red and yellow symbols telling people not to mix them together, but his doctor filled the script, and the pharmacy gave him the combo. I brought the record back to the pharmacy to ask if this combo of drugs is unusual, and the pharmacist just stared with her mouth open. Didn't say a word.

    When you look up stats on Iatrogenic Death, it's absolutely mind boggling. It's more people dying from this one cause than if a 747 jet plane full of people crashed every day of the year and killed everyone on board. Imagine how much money was spent looking for that missing plane over the ocean. But nobody and I mean nobody is trying to help the over hundred thousand people dying each year from medical mistakes.

    IMHO, I believe the problem is that healthcare is a profit driven commodity. We have given the reigns over to corporations that have a profit driven agenda, and count off the dead humans as stats and a necessity for us moving forward. Granted many of these people have life threating disease and might have died earlier without medical intervention, but many haven't (like my buddy I spoke of earlier.) I'm not a communist, I lived that life as a kid, and my parents risked life and limb to come to Canada where we can have a real life. I spent time in jail running away from communism, so it's not where I'm going with this, but I think that the wrong guys have the power over our society's healthcare. If we didn't have them making the healthcare decisions, we wouldn't have tons and tons and tons of meds that only mask symptoms, and create other nasty side effects and not a single cure. Polio. That's one that has been cured, but how long are we going to ride those coat tails? We need research using all funding and energy looking for cures instead of symptom maskers, but sadly health is not profitable. That's why this element of our society needs to be taken out of the hands of corporations with different agenda and motives.

    This is political, but if we bury our heads in the sand, then nothing will change. We just keep letting these guys get rich off of us, and continue killing people under the guise of helping. I AM angry. I feel helpless. I miss my buddy. He should not be dead right now. We should be going for a ski together. I miss my old life. I miss my strength. I miss going out in the mountains and having enough strength to be out there all day. I miss a lot of things. And for me all of this started with getting a simple, 'safe' H1N1 vaccine (which in the 2009 Canadian batch was full of Squalene.) Hey but they were just trying to make it stronger because that way they could vaccinate more people with less vaccines.

    It is political. I feel like I'm sick from political reasons. I'm sick of politics. Because some rich guys wanted to get richer, and my life (along with my family's and friends) happened to be a stepping stone to their final destination. My docs know I have WG from the vaccine. It is written in black and white on the vaccine insert I got it from the health nurse, and also from GSK's website, that Vasculitis is a possible negative reaction to getting the flu shot. So many doctors are useless and will just spout the 'party line' because they are too busy to do the deeper research - this I have learned through my WG journey.

    Here's a joke I heard from a doctor - "Q: What do you call the Med School graduate with the lowest marks in the class? A: Doctor"

    So I have found that not researching, or only listening to 'trained docs', might not be the best course of action when you have a fairly unknown disease like WG. I have been given so many bum steers in the last 5 years, it's absolutely frightening for people who just trust - like my friend who is now dead. I am alive because I have you guys in my corner and because I don't take everything I hear from the 'professionals' as gospel. I question. I look things up. I make sure my meds don't contradict. I never go for vaccines any more. I try and use the analytical skills I acquired in university to research this whole scene, and I think our problem is that government has dropped the ball and given carte blanche to profit driven corporations to play with the populace health as they see fit.

    I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm just suggesting that we are in a situation that most docs do NOT understand, and we should research, educate ourselves, and make informed decisions. Go to an ER and find out that most pros there don't give a flying crap that you're immune suppressed and shouldn't be sitting beside the guy who is so sick that he's blowing chunks, and that catching his virus could put you in a life threating situation. They don't get it.

    Oh and one last thing. When I spoke with the investigator from the Medical Examiner's office regarding my friend, the reply came back "When you're on meds, it's YOUR responsibility to make sure that everything's right. He was a grown man, he should have understood his medication." So now there's a sentiment that it is all in our hands... whether you're professionally trained or not.

    There. I've written a novel.
    Now you can crucify me.

    Begin.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by marta View Post
    I'm also not a trained medical doctor, but I have to add one more opinion on this topic, and then I shall cease and desist. I feel compelled to write about it because it's hitting close to home right now. I just wrote about it on my blog, and I can't seem to articulate it the way it lives in my brain, but I'm giving it a go here, and I promise not to get upset if there's a tsunami of disagreement coming my way.

    Iatrogenic disease. I first heard the term in a 4th year Medical Anthropology seminar I was attending while at university. For those who haven't heard it, it's the disease and death caused by medical mistakes. This includes, vaccines, drug interactions, mistakes by medical practitioners, or things picked up while in hospitals. As most of us know, Alisia believes that Phil's passing was iatrogenic in cause, and I just buried a friend (who didn't have WG or anything else that was serious) and he passed away on November 9th. I am 100% sure he passed because he was prescribed two meds that shouldn't have been prescribed together and he died of internal bleeding. I, a lay person, went on line to look up the meds on his most recent medical prescription record (filled less than a week before his passing) and I can see all the warnings, and red and yellow symbols telling people not to mix them together, but his doctor filled the script, and the pharmacy gave him the combo. I brought the record back to the pharmacy to ask if this combo of drugs is unusual, and the pharmacist just stared with her mouth open. Didn't say a word.

    When you look up stats on Iatrogenic Death, it's absolutely mind boggling. It's more people dying from this one cause than if a 747 jet plane full of people crashed every day of the year and killed everyone on board. Imagine how much money was spent looking for that missing plane over the ocean. But nobody and I mean nobody is trying to help the over hundred thousand people dying each year from medical mistakes.

    IMHO, I believe the problem is that healthcare is a profit driven commodity. We have given the reigns over to corporations that have a profit driven agenda, and count off the dead humans as stats and a necessity for us moving forward. Granted many of these people have life threating disease and might have died earlier without medical intervention, but many haven't (like my buddy I spoke of earlier.) I'm not a communist, I lived that life as a kid, and my parents risked life and limb to come to Canada where we can have a real life. I spent time in jail running away from communism, so it's not where I'm going with this, but I think that the wrong guys have the power over our society's healthcare. If we didn't have them making the healthcare decisions, we wouldn't have tons and tons and tons of meds that only mask symptoms, and create other nasty side effects and not a single cure. Polio. That's one that has been cured, but how long are we going to ride those coat tails? We need research using all funding and energy looking for cures instead of symptom maskers, but sadly health is not profitable. That's why this element of our society needs to be taken out of the hands of corporations with different agenda and motives.

    This is political, but if we bury our heads in the sand, then nothing will change. We just keep letting these guys get rich off of us, and continue killing people under the guise of helping. I AM angry. I feel helpless. I miss my buddy. He should not be dead right now. We should be going for a ski together. I miss my old life. I miss my strength. I miss going out in the mountains and having enough strength to be out there all day. I miss a lot of things. And for me all of this started with getting a simple, 'safe' H1N1 vaccine (which in the 2009 Canadian batch was full of Squalene.) Hey but they were just trying to make it stronger because that way they could vaccinate more people with less vaccines.

    It is political. I feel like I'm sick from political reasons. I'm sick of politics. Because some rich guys wanted to get richer, and my life (along with my family's and friends) happened to be a stepping stone to their final destination. My docs know I have WG from the vaccine. It is written in black and white on the vaccine insert I got it from the health nurse, and also from GSK's website, that Vasculitis is a possible negative reaction to getting the flu shot. So many doctors are useless and will just spout the 'party line' because they are too busy to do the deeper research - this I have learned through my WG journey.

    Here's a joke I heard from a doctor - "Q: What do you call the Med School graduate with the lowest marks in the class? A: Doctor"

    So I have found that not researching, or only listening to 'trained docs', might not be the best course of action when you have a fairly unknown disease like WG. I have been given so many bum steers in the last 5 years, it's absolutely frightening for people who just trust - like my friend who is now dead. I am alive because I have you guys in my corner and because I don't take everything I hear from the 'professionals' as gospel. I question. I look things up. I make sure my meds don't contradict. I never go for vaccines any more. I try and use the analytical skills I acquired in university to research this whole scene, and I think our problem is that government has dropped the ball and given carte blanche to profit driven corporations to play with the populace health as they see fit.

    I'm not telling anyone to do anything. I'm just suggesting that we are in a situation that most docs do NOT understand, and we should research, educate ourselves, and make informed decisions. Go to an ER and find out that most pros there don't give a flying crap that you're immune suppressed and shouldn't be sitting beside the guy who is so sick that he's blowing chunks, and that catching his virus could put you in a life threating situation. They don't get it.

    Oh and one last thing. When I spoke with the investigator from the Medical Examiner's office regarding my friend, the reply came back "When you're on meds, it's YOUR responsibility to make sure that everything's right. He was a grown man, he should have understood his medication." So now there's a sentiment that it is all in our hands... whether you're professionally trained or not.

    There. I've written a novel.
    Now you can crucify me.

    Begin.
    very well said and remember that drs ONLY practicing and bury their mistakes.
    Big Pharma synthesizes drugs off of natural components so that they can be petented.
    Isolating a component causes side effects.
    Introducing foreign proteins that can misfold and mutate pathogens and when they die other pathogens consume their DNA express endotoxons that cause diseases and damage tissues.
    Viruses don't need to eat and can survive hidden in our cells for many decades before coming out when our immune system is way too overloaded.
    Now, we have to rely on genetically engineered (man made chemicals) to combat the man made destructive viruses in our bodies from foods and vaccines.

    For all those who don't mind taking a chance with vaccines, can do it, but my deep belief is that EVERYONE should get the chance at an INFORMED decision.
    Last edited by mrtmeo; 12-07-2014 at 05:22 AM.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtmeo View Post
    ... but my deep belief is that EVERYONE should get the chance at an INFORMED decision.
    100% agree.
    I didn't.
    Now I know to inform myself.

    My buddy Dennis didn't.
    ... and he never will again.

  4. #114
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    Got tired of pulling my cross everywhere a long time ago, so how about just a word lashing?! I hope you feel better Marta, you know as well as I do that once a leader is chosen out of the herd that things aren't always going to go the herds' way...leaders like the way they live...thus mistakes of all kinds are made and greed & power are 2 of them. The system is broken, isn't serving entire communities, etc., but it wasn't designed for 8 billion people in mind either...crap happens then we pay for it. Way it is...we all hate it, but we all continue the history...even tho our singular roles in it can be of some significance to those we share our lives with daily. WG/hospital stays are some of those things that are susceptible to such decisions along with their propensity to 'fool' most of us. Best to all of us as it IS our responsibility to change things for the better!!!! Ramble on....
    Knowing how to think empowers you far beyond those who only know what to think. -NdT


  5. #115
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    Don, love ya bro.

    A guy in town told me this the other day, and it brought me out of my slumber.

    "Marta, before I met you, I really didn't believe that a single person can make a difference in society. Now I know this to be false, and you've inspired me to do all sorts of things in my own life."

    I have been feeling a lot like I'm banging my head against a wall with all my ramblings, but a person took a chance and told me how he felt and exposing a vulnerability .... all while I was shopping for an evening movie. This re-ignited my spark to keep on trucking forward with the lessons this disease has brought to my plate. I'm not going to let this crappy, horrible experience be for nothing. I want to make something out of it, something positive, something life changing... not just for me and my family, but for anyone else who might be willing to engage.

    Already together we have changed how doctors see things. Remember the survey I had for a couple of years? The one where we got almost 1,000 Weggies responding. Unprecedented. We will be published in the Journal of Rheumatology because of that. The basis of the article is that patients can generate their own research, we can talk freely to each other, and we can make findings that might not be made in a 1/2 hour doctor visit. We are changing the way the patient's role is perceived in the medical/research side of things. All because of the survey we all did, that I came up with while laying in a hospital bed, hopped up on heavy duty steroids. The article is written (had a post collection ethics review done and approved) and has been submitted to the Journal of Rheumatology. It wasn't sent back to us, and is undergoing peer review as we speak. I'll keep you posted. But what I'm trying to say with this is...

    each and everyone of us can make a difference. Sadly making a difference involves standing up and putting yourself on the line against the current thinking, and you do risk being ridiculed, called names, and made to feel small and stupid, but I'm taking that chance, cuz I know we can do it.
    Last edited by marta; 12-07-2014 at 05:57 AM.

  6. #116
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    I totally agree with you Marta, the drs. are too busy with their patients to find the underlying problem but instead just prescribe a med to fix it temporally. I ALWAYS check the web for myself and my mother to see if their is any drug interactions when prescribed a new drug. Just last week I had to take her to the er for diverticulitsis. I have on her med sheet not to give her the antibioatic cypro because it has interactions with a patch she wears. The first thing the er dr prescribed was cypro. I said ,"Did you not read the list I gave you..she can't take that " He lookes surprised and what did he do ..prescribe her a gernertic for it. The pharmacist told me and said if she has a problem stop it. After 1 she did, I called her dr the next day and he also said not to take it. The er dr had her taking 5 antibiotics a day. We gave her 1 and we go see our pcp Tues. Its very scary.
    And like vdub said about the flu shot was a waste because it won't cover the strain that is going around ,,,,UGH !!!!!!
    Life isn't about how you survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain !

  7. #117
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    Just found this paper and this doc on the Autoimmunity Network newsletter. He is actually going to debate this topic (against vaccines) during an Autoimmune Conference in Italy this coming March.

    Prof. Shoenfeld has described two new syndromes, one of which is the ASIA syndrome (Autoimmune Syndromes Induced by Adjuvants)

    Vaccination and Autoimmunity??vaccinosis?: A Dangerous Liaison?

    This is totally in line with what I think happened to me. An Adjuvant induced Autoimmune Disease. Squalene to be exact, the lovely adjuvant added to the Canadian batch of the 2009 H1N1 Vaccine.

    I'm not a doctor, but Dr. Shoenfeld, seems to have some heavy hitting credentials under his name and he's been working with Autoimmune Disease for decades.

    Just food for thought.

    Oh yeah, and there is this too: http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/5881914
    Last edited by marta; 01-21-2015 at 04:52 AM.

  8. #118
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    That's a good study from a credible source -- certainly not junk science. Its a 15 year old study, but still good. Israel puts out a lot of good research.

  9. #119
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    The risks far outweigh any claimed benefit of a vaccine.
    I opt to wear a mask

    Girl, five, dies from a strain of the flu she was vaccinated against as deadly epidemic continues to sweep across the US
    Keira Driscoll dies from flu strain she was vaccinated against | Daily Mail Online

    Young Newlywed Dies From Influenza-Related Sepsis Shortly After Complications Arise
    Young Newlywed Dies From Influenza-Related Sepsis Shortly After Complications Arise

  10. #120
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    Yeap, flu can be nasty and the cdc is saying the vaccine manufacturer missed the target this year. I was told at my last appt, even if you do get a vaccination, it takes a couple weeks for the body to build an immunity.

    I'm sure a mask helps, but probably helps you more from spreading germs vs. helping you from catch something. I think the 10 most likely things to spread germs are your fingers. I have often thought of how much "really public" areas we touch without even thinking about it -- elevator buttons, money, chair rails as we pull them forward, door pulls, and the list goes on and on and on. And, then, after getting the germs on our hands, we touch our mouth, scratch our nose, or rub our eye. And, there you have it....

    Flu vaccinations are particularly bad because they morph from year to year. A continually moving target....

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