Dreams???

[annekat]

All very interesting, Al. If I had a dream that cool I suppose I'd write it down, too. I do remember some things about the one I woke up from this morning, but they are too goofy to share. The general gist was trying to find people and things I'd become separated from during a sequence of events, and trying to accomplish simple tasks but having trouble doing them. I'm sure that sort of thing is very common and does mean something. Some of the details can be pretty weird, but not in a way that is interesting enough to share, except maybe with a Jungian analyst.

Anne

[Al]

All very interesting, Al. If I had a dream that cool I suppose I'd write it down, too. I do remember some things about the one I woke up from this morning, but they are too goofy to share. The general gist was trying to find people and things I'd become separated from during a sequence of events, and trying to accomplish simple tasks but having trouble doing them. I'm sure that sort of thing is very common and does mean something. Some of the details can be pretty weird, but not in a way that is interesting enough to share, except maybe with a Jungian analyst.

Yes, Anne, this kind of dream is, I suspect, common for everyone. If my idea of the narrative generator is correct, this kind of frustration dream is, in fact, almost inevitable. Here is the basic idea: We know that we do not experience reality directly (we know this because it can be shown that consciousness lags behind object reality by about a third of a second--time enough to establish a story line that makes sense according to the incoming data. In effect, we are editing all that incoming sensory data and integrating it with our memory banks into a cohesive story line. During sleep, however, the sense organs themselves are not updating us. When we dream, the part of the brain that writes the story is turned on, but its incoming data is not from working senses, as they are turned off, but from (if I get this right from neurophysics) random firing from an area in the brain stem. The "narrative generator" is desperately trying to make up something plausible from this stream of gibberish. (The what it considers plausible is what interests dream interpreters.) But because the narrative generator is essentially free-wheeling during dreams, and not synchronized by any constant updating to the objective world, it will fly from story element to story element. So the sequence of events in a dream can get pretty wild. We also know that brains are very good at "confabulating"--making up plausible motives for during something. When this happens during full consciousness, this sounds like lying to oneself. But during dreams, this leads to a kind of frustration: One moment's motives don't work for the next segment. For example, in a typical dream, I might be trying to get to a job, but first I have to find a piece of gear I need, which happens to be at another location. But I can't start the car because the battery is dead. So I get someone else to drive me. For some reason that person needs to stop by the grocery store. So I set out walking, and meet up with a gut walking a bear....And so on. Of course, I never get to the job. In fact, the original motive may hang frustratingly in the background, but the scene changes regularly to make sure the goal can never be met. I suspect that this aspect is only an artifact of the way our physiology works. The really interesting stuff is in the momentary parts--the wise old woman you meet along the way; the kind of vehicle you are riding in; the piece of gear you break; the tunnels you go through to get to your hoped-for destination; and so on. Also, what motivations turn out to be recurring themes. For me, a fascinating part of the pred reaction was that the narrative arc, normally choppy, could become so extended.

As I say, an interesting subject. Dreams must say something about how we are constructed, but what is more difficult to determine....

Al

[alexciasmom]

well i am now dreaming.. i had fish hooks stuck all over my body and when i woke up i had pain were ever there was a hook. lol better than no dreams.

[pberggren1]

I had a neat dream today around 3 just before I woke up.

I was a real estate agent and was trying to get into a deal for one of my clients in a large upscale condo in Palm Springs, CA.

We got in and were given a tour. The developer like me and asked if I wanted to join his team so I did. I then proceded to sell condos around the world like this. The next thing I knew I was in eastern Europe somewhere on beach front property and was showing a place to my sister. Then I woke up.

[Al]

well i am now dreaming.. i had fish hooks stuck all over my body and when i woke up i had pain were ever there was a hook. lol better than no dreams.

Yikes! I think I wold rather have slept through that dream! But you do raise a technical point: Senses are not turned totally off while sleeping. For example, nearby sirens (or alarm clocks) can enter your dreams in the form of car alarms or similar.

Al

[Al]

I had a neat dream today around 3 just before I woke up.

I was a real estate agent and was trying to get into a deal for one of my clients in a large upscale condo in Palm Springs, CA.

We got in and were given a tour. The developer like me and asked if I wanted to join his team so I did. I then proceded to sell condos around the world like this. The next thing I knew I was in eastern Europe somewhere on beach front property and was showing a place to my sister. Then I woke up.

Ah...Phil, the Ricky Roma (or maybe Al Pacino) Wannabe? (One of my favorite Alec Baldwin lines: "First prize, a Cadillac. Second prize, a set of steak knives. Third prize, you're fired." A great ensemble movie.

Al

[pberggren1]

Which movie is this Al?

[Al]

Glengarry Glen Ross.

Al

[annekat]

Thanks for the interesting and informative discussion on narrative generation in dreams, Al. Once again, did you actually smell the cedar and fir trees in your dream, not with your nose, but with that special part of your brain stem? Or was someone cutting cedar and fir nearby while you were waking up? Just wondering, because when I think I catch whiffs of things, I think it may be generated somewhere like that without any help from my nose, since I really can't smell right now due to my WG related sinus problems.

Anne

[Al]

Thanks for the interesting and informative discussion on narrative generation in dreams, Al. Once again, did you actually smell the cedar and fir trees in your dream, not with your nose, but with that special part of your brain stem? Or was someone cutting cedar and fir nearby while you were waking up? Just wondering, because when I think I catch whiffs of things, I think it may be generated somewhere like that without any help from my nose, since I really can't smell right now due to my WG related sinus problems.

While I had recently been around the firs (though not the cedars), Anne, at the time of the dream they were just a memory. Also, I have tasted things in my dreams that I cannot taste in real life....

Al