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Thread: Gerson's Therapy

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    Quote Originally Posted by MCC View Post
    I posted a thread about nutrition a couple of weeks ago and Food Matters but only got one reply so I guess no one was particularly interested.

    For my part, I will continue on my own path, I'm not interested in accepting 'drugs are the only way' any more. Everyone has to do what they think is best for themselves so I'm following a high raw diet, taking more regular exercise and doing an 'anti stress' programme in the form of Paul McKenna's book. Worth a try
    MCC: I am sorry that, for some reason, I did not see your thread at the time. If I had, I surely would have left a reply. But, in fact, several other threads commented extensively on this issue, so anything I said there would have been redundant--as will this one, at least in part.

    Many of us, myself included, are intensely interested in nutritional matters. And we all know about the double-edged sword of a drug-based therapy. So, of course, we all yearn for a proactive, non-pharmaceutic treatment. But I have to say that none seems to exist for our lovely disease.

    I have read Dr. Fuhrman's introduction, and I have seen Food Matters, and have read of the Gerson diet. All of these take a grain (or several grains) of truth and run with it. Still, many points trouble me, insofar as dealing specifically with vasculitis is concerned. There is no question in my mind that eating well (whatever that means, in context) is good for us, and there is no question that our meds are hard on the body. The emphasis on "toxins" is, however, misplaced, and only serves as a catchword here: Anything is a "toxin" at the inappropriate level, and many things that could be called toxins are, in fact, rather useful to the body. The question becomes, then, how much of what a body in a certain condition can tolerate.

    It is also true that some auto-immune diseases do incorporate diet into their treatment plans. MS is one of them; RA is, sometimes another. But the fact is that WG is not a disease is highly correlated with diet (or exercise). Those who "live well" get the disease, and its flares, as often as those who do not. Vegetarians and vegans suffer along with the omnivores. (Exercise is a bit problematic. I can find very little research about how it plays out in WG. However, in theory, a little is great, but too much can actually trigger a flare.) You can proceed as you wish; it is your body, after all.

    As for stress: Yes, relieving of certain kinds of stress will help minimize the risk of flares; for one thing, it will take some of the pressure of an already compromised immune system. But humans also need some stresses. he question is, how much, and what kind. The books on stress management that I have seen do not make this differentiation.

    For me, the bottom line is that, while I will continue my quest for good nutrition and such (I like stews a lot, though most recipes have too much salt for me, so I follow my own tastes), but will not rely on this for dealing with my disease. Yes, I know about those who have said, "I've had five flares, and have recovered from all of them without medication!" But, you see, that would be a terrible solution for me. My first major flare would have killed me outright. The second would have taken only my kidneys, if I got lucky. If I have a third, I would be up for organ replacement, or worse. The bottom line is that I cannot afford to have another major flare. If you can take the risk, you are welcome to your own solution. I cannot.

    Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al View Post
    For me, the bottom line is that, while I will continue my quest for good nutrition and such (I like stews a lot, though most recipes have too much salt for me, so I follow my own tastes), but will not rely on this for dealing with my disease. Yes, I know about those who have said, "I've had five flares, and have recovered from all of them without medication!" But, you see, that would be a terrible solution for me. My first major flare would have killed me outright. The second would have taken only my kidneys, if I got lucky. If I have a third, I would be up for organ replacement, or worse. The bottom line is that I cannot afford to have another major flare. If you can take the risk, you are welcome to your own solution. Al
    I would like to add to this since to the best of my knowledge I am the one who said I have had several flares that I recovered from without treatment and I do not want to mislead.

    I was diagnosed more than 10 years ago. I spent the better part of two years undiagnosed. By the time I was diagnosed I was VERY ILL. I was put on 100mg of prednisone and 100-200 of cytoxan for more than 2 years. I was very aggressively treated in a way that no doctor would ever treat someone now a days. I do think that perhaps the length of time I was on cytoxan may have contributed to my long remission. My "cure" so to speak almost left me dead. Over the years I have had several mini flares and they are treated with prednisone to see if it gets chased away. This has worked. There has also been the odd time that i seem to be heading towards a big flare and then after waiting 7 days to decided to treat or not I do not need to be treated.

    I have never refused treatment. I would never refuse treatment. After having this disease for as long as I have I have a good awarness of when I am getting wegeners sick. I do believe that for the last few years, my body has been gearing up towards a big flare. I picture an army of anca's gathering getting ready for attack.

    If I have ever given the impression that I believe that wegeners can ever be treated without meds I appologize.
    lightning crashes
    leigh

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    My flare in 2008 cleared up - or went away - on it's own as well. I can't explain why. I was not on any anti inflamitory meds or immunosupressing meds. My only explanation is that it may have been early in my disease.

    That's not to say it will happen that way for anyone else. Now that I have a diagnosis, I will not allow a flare to get bad before treating it properly. Minor smouldering would be acceptable, if the doc says it's ok.
    ~ Chris ~
    (Female )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris G View Post
    .... Minor smouldering would be acceptable, if the doc says it's ok.
    Again, Chris, it depends on your risk assessment. Minor smoldering can turn into a major conflagration quickly. For me, that could be fatal.

    Al

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    I expect anyone who uses the word 'conflagration' to be right on top of things.

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    Hi Chris,
    I'd like to add an "Amen" to Al's point about the smouldering aspect of Wegs. - - for your consideration and for that of others who are perhaps new to this. Sometimes things do just smoulder, but in other cases a smouldering can indeed become a major outbreak and very quickly so. (My testimony is having a clear CT scan of the chest and 36 hours later I'm riding a helicoptor to the ER with the formation of ground glass granulomas and hemorrhaging in the lungs of that very same chest.) Quickly - - and deadly under certain circumstances. That's why we pay so much attention to anything that feels the slightest bit amiss and that's one of the nasty things about this disease - - it can get you real fast if you're not careful. It can get you real fast even if you are careful; that's why we all encourage each other to keep after the docs who seem not to quite get it and why we are so alert to the smoke on today's wind which could signal tomorrow's conflagration. We just want you to be careful 'cause fighting fires is no fun. Ron

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    Ok, so the answer to the original question is a big loud NO. Stick with the meds.


    that is all
    Last edited by delorisdoe; 01-26-2012 at 10:46 PM.
    lightning crashes
    leigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al View Post
    Again, Chris, it depends on your risk assessment. Minor smoldering can turn into a major conflagration quickly. For me, that could be fatal.

    Al
    Correct me if I am wrong but I thought this was true for everyone???
    lightning crashes
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    Ron and all -- I believe it's our responsibility to understand our bodies and symptoms. I'm just learning, but am always thinking and processing what's happening. Even if it's nothing to be alarmed about, I strive to understand and keep written records of how I feel. I may need this info in the future. My hope (expectation) is my doctors will keep listening when we meet and digest my emails because they need to know me well and see another side of WG they may not have seen. While it would be great to not rely on meds, I'm not willing to take the risk. Of course, I'll use other "remedies" to support my treatment (exercise, nutrition, etc). I'm not advocating blind faith in doctors, just common sense with respect to their education, knowledge, and experience!

    KB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris G View Post
    My flare in 2008 cleared up - or went away - on it's own as well. I can't explain why. I was not on any anti inflamitory meds or immunosupressing meds. My only explanation is that it may have been early in my disease.

    That's not to say it will happen that way for anyone else. Now that I have a diagnosis, I will not allow a flare to get bad before treating it properly. Minor smouldering would be acceptable, if the doc says it's ok.
    Chris i had very similar experiences before being diagnosed - i had periods of extreme tiredness that my doc put down to me being borderline anaemic. I think these were mini flares but they did go away on their own. Well, that is, the extreme fatigue went away but the disease didnt and i was diagnosed 3 years, 2 biopsies and 1 collapsed nose later.

    I think most of us here would love to find an alternative therapy instead of the drugs but, at the end of the day, as bad as some of the drugs are, the simple fact is we need them or we die.
    "I believe that I have seen a negative attitude kill people, but I don't think that a positive one will cure you. However, I know that it Helps". Jack

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