Excercise Question

[Psyborg]

I've been having serious issues with weight loss even though I'm using the Pred. I think a lot of the weight loss in the last couple months has been due to muscle mass burning off a bit. My question is can I lift weights safely or am I just asking for trouble there until this is under control? I feel ok after riding a bike or walkinig, but I do feel a bit more run down after going to the gym. Just wondering, don't want to cause myself more problems than I'm already experiencing with fatigue and pain.

[pwc51]

My rheumatologist continually reminds me that I am allowed to exercise but not exert - where is the dividing line?! One definition I have heard is that if you can't hold a conversation whilst exercising then you are doing too much. Where does your gym activity fall?

[Psyborg]

If I am lifting weights I'm definitely exerting. I do see a specialist on Friday so I'll stay out of the gym for the week I guess :) I still enjoy using my Bike while the summer lasts :)

[Jack]

I would not recommend lifting weights. Pred has a serious effect upon the tendons and you could do yourself damage. I think it would be safer to work on stamina and cardiovascular fitness.
Weight loss and in particular the loss of muscle mass can be a serious problem with Pred although it is not often mentioned on these pages. The more usual effect is weight gain through fat and water retention. I struggle a lot with weight loss and have almost no muscles left in my legs. I could probably improve on this condition a little if I was able to exercise, but a recent fall and the pain that I have in my feet and lower legs prevents this to a large extent.

[elephant]

Psyborg, I would be careful about lifting weights especially when your on prednisone. More likely to tear ligaments and tendons. I think Sangye has some good advice about this.

[Palmyra]

Ditto to all that Jack said...think yoga, pilates, swimming...lean muscle mass is so good for those with AI disease. My former patients positive for HIV used to have doctors orders to develop muscle mass.

Even for a fit Weggie in early 20"s, those tendons and joint are vulnerable. While not recently on pred, my daughter permanently damaged both wrists riding her road bike. Two carple tunnel release surgeries later, she is now swimming and doing yoga for exercise. I am not sure its just pred that makes Weggies joints suseptble. Her joints can blow up for little to no reason if she is not in a solid med induced remission.

How is that injury recovery coming Jack?

[Jack]

How is that injury recovery coming Jack?
Too slow for my liking! ;)

Shoulder and wrist now recovered with some loss of movement, but nothing that bothers me except when I try to wash my back.
New painkiller (Tramadol) is helping with legs and I can now bear my full weight on them at times. Next move is to change from crutches to sticks - I've got some in the pipeline.

[Psyborg]

Ditto to all that Jack said...think yoga, pilates, swimming...

What about Tai Chi? I heard on another spot somewhere that it's good for RA. How bout WG?

[katarzena]

Are we able to get some muscles back if we're still on prednisone on 10mg and below?

[Palmyra]

Such an individual question...exercise and WG! Take a look at this:

Athlete keeps going with dialysis at home (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10160/1064083-114.stm)

and of coarse we have a female member that has been onsite, and is speaking at the VF symposium. She managed to train for and climb Mt Everest:

Cindy Abbott, Woman With Rare Vascular Disease, Climbs Mt. Everest (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/02/cindy-abbott-woman-with-r_n_597115.html)

I think that all is possible, but one must really be careful as well as smart. My daughter did not 'listen' to her wrists, and she will admilt that. She does still cycle, just not with the same intensity. If a knee is sore, she knows there must be some kind of inflammation going on, so she will work another part of her body. Tai Chi is probably great...

We would need Sangye to weigh in on the muscle mass developement while on low dose pred. :-)

[elephant]

Thanks for that article Palmra about the guy on home dialysis. Wow!

[Sangye]

I agree with what others have said. Keep your exertion levels low: overall exertion, so that it doesn't use up resources you need for healing, and individual muscle exertion so that you don't damage tendons and ligaments. It's very easy to rupture an Achilles tendon with running or even a hearty stretch. In general, go for time, not intensity. Tai Chi is great-- unlikely to injure yourself and very restorative.

I don't know the pred dosage where you can actually put on muscle or at least break even. I suspect it may be 10-15mg. My reasoning is that the adrenals don't become dependent on pred until 20mg. Below 20mg your own adrenals are still functioning to some degree and helping to balance the catabolic (muscle-destroying) aspect of the pred.

Palmyra, Cindy Abbot never took pred. That makes a big difference in her ability to exercise and the type she was able to do.

[Palmyra]

Palmyra, Cindy Abbot never took pred. That makes a big difference in her ability to exercise and the type she was able to do.

Wow, how she was able to manage that (no pred w/ Weg)!? I think Alison's joints/ligaments/tendons would have been suseptable even without boatloads of previous pred. When she flairs, her joints are hypersensitive.

As I said, exercise is such an individual entity. Cindy Abott and the triathelet on dialysis were obviously rare birds to start with. I do think muscle mass is an interesting subject for those with autoimmune disease. (Or even for mangy middle aged 'ole me)

[elephant]

With all the medicines that I am on I walk on the treadmill for one hour four days a week, sometimes only three days a week. I don't run anymore or walk very fast. I still don't feel 100 % so I take an easy. I try to nap daily if I can. The last month I did not nap and I exercised two time's a week. So I am paying for it.

[Psyborg]

I figure until I talk to the Docs at CC this Friday I don't know how serious my condition is and I'm trying to listen to my body.

I started off very high on Pred from my family doctor to head off the intense pain. The Rheumatologist scaled that back fast because I was at 80 when I saw him first still. But I think I went too far down for no other treatment because when I hit 20 all the pain and some other symptoms started to return.

So I'm not 100% sure if it's my Pred reduction or pushing too hard...probably a combination of both based on what you folks are saying (AND THANKS BTW :)) I feel better after excercise, but I do get some stiffness and soreness later.

There is a place in my town that has Yoga and Tai Chi classes, but only one yoga to three tai chi per week. I don't know that once a week would be sufficient...but I could be completely wrong too :)

[Sangye]

Tune into your body immediately following exercise (easy for most people) and also a few hours later. The stiffness and soreness you're feeling later on tells me that your exercise is increasing inflammation, which can take several hours to build up enough to cause symptoms.

Yoga and tai chi are amazing. Even if you do them occasionally you'll have benefits. I haven't been able to do either since I was dx'ed in 2006-- various reasons. I sure miss them.

[Tim Roberts]

I agree with everyone's comments about Wegener's and exercise. When I was diagnosed almost a year ago to the day, I inquired of my rheumatolgist when I could begin running again as I have been an avid runner for years before I became sick. She advised me that I should listen to my body and that I could begin walking and then running again as I was able. With that advice, once I was released from the hospital I walked both morning and evening for about a month and then slowly, slowly began running again. My hope was to continue to build very slowly until I hopefully got back to my original regime before I got sick. This has worked well for me (although I know we are all different) as I have been off of prednisone now for over four months and I continue to take methotrexate once a week. I am for the first time, going to clock 20 miles of running this week so I am still continuing to build. My hope would be to run a half marathon next summer but I am also a realist so I guess we will see. I can, however, tell that the eight months on prednisone has taken its toll on my muscle mass but slowly, slowly that is returning a bit. I don't know if it will ever all come back but I guess I'll take what I can get at this point in time. Just my experience for what it is worth.

[Sangye]

I'm so happy to hear how well you're doing, Tim. :)

[Tim Roberts]

Thank you Sangye and I appreciate your kind words. I do know, however, that today is today and none of us know what tomorrow brings. So far things have gone well for me but that may not always be the case. I'll just appreciate today and take whatever I can get. As you have all taught me, this is a strange disease and it can turn on a dime and we are all different.

[Hammy8241]

Good news Tim and well done (20 mile a week – I’m on 8!). A half seems a long way away for me but small steps and periods of reflection before moving on again is necessary with WG.

Exercise is all relative. Some of us try long jump down the stairs:), other motor racing around Disneyworld;), dog walking appears safer but those who can exercise should.

Psyborg, you can continue as before but it will do you no good in the long run. The only way is to ‘play the game’, listen to the advice. Hard as it is to hear, unless or until you get the WG into remission (and that can take anything from a year to never) ‘normal service is not going to be resumed’. Please try to accept that your life is now different. I found that the hardest part about WG and it has taken several months to arrive at an exercise/WG balance.

As some of you know, I have returned to running whilst on pred (30mg & Mtx) because, despite the potential dangers, I mentally feel the need. I am building slowly with very small, achievable goals and listening very carefully to my body.

Currently exercising 3 times a week for 30 mins on a treadmill on a hill programme. Yes, muscle loss is terrific and I am no where near ability wise as I was a year ago. I also need a sports Bra! I do however, monitor closely how I feel after the exercise and the days after. The first sign of tiredness I will back off.

I have had to accept that to run slowly is better than no running and I feel much better for it. I’m going for a 5 k race at the weekend but I WILL NOT be racing it , but rather using it as a benchmark and as a social event to see my old running club buddies.

I’m quite nervous about appearing in public again wondering if I will manage it. I’ve got some friends to jog round with me for support. Hope I don’t cry all the way round!

[elephant]

Glad to hear you are doing great Tim! Hammy proud you are going to try the 5K, and this will boost your spirit just to be there. Also so glad your taking it slow.

[marta]

Good news Tim and well done (20 mile a week – I’m on 8!). A half seems a long way away for me but small steps and periods of reflection before moving on again is necessary with WG.

.......
Yes, muscle loss is terrific and I am no where near ability wise as I was a year ago. I also need a sports Bra! I do however, monitor closely how I feel after the exercise and the days after. The first sign of tiredness I will back off.



Tim, I love it! Thanks for the inspiration.

Hammy, the bra... you slay me.
I, on the other hand, have ALWAYS worn a sports bra, mine however seems to be mysteriously shrinking (I'm pretty sure it's not my laundering technique either,) as are my eyes and my mouth. I use to have a big toothy smile which now gets lost in a sea of face. Oh well, better 'puffy' and above ground than 'just right' and below.

[pberggren1]

You are hillarious Marta!

[Sangye]

LOL-- "a sea of face." :D :D :D

[Psyborg]

Those stories are pretty inspirational. Honestly, I'm not diagnosed officially yet, but I'd be utterly shocked if this isn't it...too many symptoms finally match when nothing did before. I'm still probably at least partially in denial about the whole thing, but I'm trying to stay realistic yet optimistic. But not sure I'll be able to really keep things straight until I'm 100% sure of the situation.

[Sangye]

Hammy, you're doing great at adapting to Wegs. Though it's a huge step down for you, I'm totally amazed by how much you're able to do.

A few weeks ago I complained about still not being able to walk a grocery store (after 4 years). Now with the vertigo thing, I'd be happy to walk across the room without struggling. But at least it's much better than being completely pinned in one position for days like when it began. Wegs can always take more from us and is not always so generous when giving back.

[Hammy8241]

Thanks Sangye. But it has only been possible thanks to you and the other contributors to this forum. Without you guys sharing your experiences and knowledge I would still be wondering around in the dark.

As it happens, I having a bit of an off day but not because of the running but a touch of gardening overdose, so on the sofa today getting ready for work tomorrow. I’m sure it’s going to be a roller coaster!

I wish I had answers for you and the others but so long as we have each other then there has to be hope.

[elephant]

Hammy, just being here on the forum gives us support. Someone's question may be just answered just by one of your post. :)

[Hammy8241]

Elephant, I think you once told me you were a track & field star when younger. What events and distances did you like best. ( sorry, should have followed this up weeks ago but wrapped up in my own problems...selfish git!!)

[elephant]

That was so long ago, I did the 400 relay races and ran the 100 yard dash. I did cross country also to keep my endurance. That all fell apart when my kidneys were failing and the coaches thought I had back pain from pulling a muscle, so they worked on me to get stronger, but that did not happen.
Thanks for asking, I sure miss though.

[Terri]

I know that feeling.....a sea of face.......:eek:

[marta]

Thanks Sangye. But it has only been possible thanks to you and the other contributors to this forum. Without you guys sharing your experiences and knowledge I would still be wondering around in the dark.

I wish I had answers for you and the others but so long as we have each other then there has to be hope.

I concur. I've gotten more answers here from all of you than from any doctor visits. I feel lucky to have stumbled onto this forum and am glad to have you as a support net.... one BIIIIG global support net. Thanks to you all for sharing so openly and allowing me to blather on and on and on and on. One day Andrew will figure out a way to get a hand to come out of the screen and give me a slap for going on too much, but until then thanks for your patience and unreal support.

[pberggren1]

Please go on and on as much as you like. Coming on this Forum everyday and reading and responding to posts is a great stress reliever for me. Thanks Marta and to everyone else as well for going on and on. Just don't go on and off!

[Hammy8241]

I know that feeling.....a sea of face.......:eek:

Love the Pic Terri

[elephant]

Terri cute picture, the face reminds me when I was on 60 mg of prednisone!

[Sangye]

Marta, I just love your posts. You have the gift of writing just like you sound. Even though I've never met you, I can tell. :)

[marta]

Marta, I just love your posts. You have the gift of writing just like you sound. Even though I've never met you, I can tell. :)

You only say that because you can turn off your computer at will. If you actually had to sit and listen to me blather on, you'd have no escape and then what would you do? Hmmm?

Ask Phil, he called me yesterday on the phone and couldn't get off for more than a half an hour. I'm laughing right now as I type this, because that really IS funny. Poor bugger. ha ha ha ha - he he he he....

For a nanonsecond of seriousness though, Thanks Sangye.

[marta]

Back to the topic at hand - exercise. I went golfing today. Is that considered exercise, or an exercise in futility?
I vote for the latter, however I was huffing a little, but that might have been because I was walking double the length of everyone else (read zig-zag) and swinging at least twice as much as everyone else. That's considerable amount of muscle engagement for a Wegie (for anyone for that matter if you would have seen me flailing about the golf course). Luckily I got the highest points.... oh wait, right, golf.

[pberggren1]

Actually Marta, I didn't want to hang up. I think we talked for over an hour. I really enjoyed talking with you on the phone and look forward to more calls.

[Sangye]

LOL-- good visual of you on the golf course, Marta!

Listen, you are talking to the Queen of Yakking. Really, let's just say it's a good thing that Buddhist nuns don't have to maintain a vow of silence. :D

[marta]

LOL-- good visual of you on the golf course, Marta!

Listen, you are talking to the Queen of Yakking. Really, let's just say it's a good thing that Buddhist nuns don't have to maintain a vow of silence. :D

I'll take you on Sangye. I'm unstopable. Just ask Phil.

Phil it was indeed a pleasure. You couldn't have hung up even if you tried, cuz I kept going on and on and on...

[pberggren1]

Listen, you are talking to the Queen of Yakking. Really, let's just say it's a good thing that Buddhist nuns don't have to maintain a vow of silence. :D

Actually Sangye, they just changed the rules on that one. A vow of silence was just introduced. Sorry!;););)

[pberggren1]

that didn't come with the quotes. thats strange.

[Hammy8241]

[QUOTE=marta;21030]
Ask Phil, he called me yesterday on the phone and couldn't get off for more than a half an hour. I'm laughing right now as I type this, because that really IS funny. Poor bugger. ha ha ha ha - he he he he....QUOTE]

Wicked sense of humour.....I approve:D

[pberggren1]

I love talking to fellow Weggies on the phone.

[pberggren1]

That reminds me of a Swedish song called Telephone done to the tune of Honeycomb. It is a comedic song. Very funny. Speaking of Swedish has anyone heard how moyan is doing?

[Sangye]

I've been wondering that, too. And Jolanta-- where is she?

[elephant]

I actually was wondering that too!

[drz]

I've been having serious issues with weight loss even though I'm using the Pred. I think a lot of the weight loss in the last couple months has been due to muscle mass burning off a bit. My question is can I lift weights safely or am I just asking for trouble there until this is under control? I feel ok after riding a bike or walkinig, but I do feel a bit more run down after going to the gym. Just wondering, don't want to cause myself more problems than I'm already experiencing with fatigue and pain.

The rehab facilities have me lift weights but weights are generally small and probably more to build up endurance and cardio fitness than to gain muscle. I always ddo with a physical therapist or other supervision at their facilities but they have given me some isometrics and rubber band exercises to do on my own.

[Lola]

The last I remember, Jolanta was shopping in a Polish market.

[pberggren1]

You are right Lola. The last post I remember from Jolanta is from Poland.

[onatreetop]

I was so worried about the weight getting out of control that I was the person who tore The legament on the bottom of my foot trying to exercise more than I should have. no weights just to much cardio.now it feels like I am walking on rocks and I cant feel 4 toes anymore. If i stay on my feet to long the foot swells more too.Be careful I wonldnt wish this on anyone.

[pberggren1]

That's awful onatreetop. I'm so sorry you have to go through this.

[Sangye]

The last I remember, Jolanta was shopping in a Polish market.
Maybe she's still there? :D

[elephant]

Hope you feel better and take good care of yourself onatreetop, so good to hear from you again.

[Sangye]

I was so worried about the weight getting out of control that I was the person who tore The legament on the bottom of my foot trying to exercise more than I should have. no weights just to much cardio.now it feels like I am walking on rocks and I cant feel 4 toes anymore. If i stay on my feet to long the foot swells more too.Be careful I wonldnt wish this on anyone.
I started a new thread called "What the Newly Diagnosed Need to Know." It'd be nice if you would reiterate this on that thread. It's so important.

[pberggren1]

I started a new thread called "What the Newly Diagnosed Need to Know." It'd be nice if you would reiterate this on that thread. It's so important.

That's a good idea Sangye. See you are gifted.

[Hammy8241]

I’m going for a 5 k race at the weekend but I WILL NOT be racing it , but rather using it as a benchmark and as a social event to see my old running club buddies.

I’m quite nervous about appearing in public again wondering if I will manage it. I’ve got some friends to jog round with me for support. Hope I don’t cry all the way round!

Just to update you...

Did try to race it which is why I only managed 3k before coming to a sudden 'empty tank'. Did not cry and feel ok about what I achieved. Sounded like a steam train, just not as smooth or fast. Good news is that i have had no adverse effect today as I have had so often after pushing boundries.

The future: more practise then try again in a month but try not to race it....oh yeh!

[Sangye]

Good for you, Hammy! So glad you had some fun, didn't judge yourself and are doing well today! Give yourself a pat on the back. :)

[marta]

Just to update you...

Did try to race it which is why I only managed 3k before coming to a sudden 'empty tank'. Did not cry and feel ok about what I achieved. Sounded like a steam train, just not as smooth or fast. Good news is that i have had no adverse effect today as I have had so often after pushing boundries.

The future: more practise then try again in a month but try not to race it....oh yeh!

Right on Hammy!!!!
Incidentally I ALWAYS sound like a steam train when I do 'cardio stuff' even when I considered myself pretty strong (which is why I stuff music in my ears, that way I don't have to listen to myself huff and puff) so I don't think that's something to be concerned about.
We can train together on opposite sides of the globe. I'll ride my bike, you ride your running shoes.
Stay strong! Live strong!

[Hammy8241]

Incidentally I ALWAYS sound like a steam train when I do 'cardio stuff' even when I considered myself pretty strong (which is why I stuff music in my ears, that way I don't have to listen to myself huff and puff) so I don't think that's something to be concerned about.
We can train together on opposite sides of the globe. I'll ride my bike, you ride your running shoes.
Stay strong! Live strong!

Thanks Marta/Sangye

Maybebreathing is meant to be loud to assist with the reduced hearing I've got......just letting me know I’m still alive ….a benefit of having WG????

A new thread?: are there any benefits to WG?

[marta]

It's always nice to get those hints from nature that we're still alive. I've always liked hints.

I also like the idea of the new thread. I can think of a few already.

[ian anderson]

I've been having serious issues with weight loss even though I'm using the Pred. I think a lot of the weight loss in the last couple months has been due to muscle mass burning off a bit. My question is can I lift weights safely or am I just asking for trouble there until this is under control? I feel ok after riding a bike or walkinig, but I do feel a bit more run down after going to the gym. Just wondering, don't want to cause myself more problems than I'm already experiencing with fatigue and pain. hi listen carefully to what im about to tell you im a former bodybuilder with 32yrs experience there are 2 types of steroids in the world anabolic and catabolic anabolic steroids build muscle mass catabolic steroids (prednisone) tears down muscle tissue so in effect by going to the gym your trying to build muscle and at the same time your preds are tearing it down youll get no where fast and into the bargain all tendons and ligiments take a hammering on preds so advice from someone who knows dont lift iron take any cardio you like and stick to that build lung and heart power leave the weights to when your off preds and i promise youll build graeat muscle tissue ill even send you a routine to follow hows that take care fellow weggie Ian Anderson

[elephant]

Thanks Ian that was great information. I am on 8 mg of prednisone can I lift 10 pound weights?

[ian anderson]

Thanks Ian that was great information. I am on 8 mg of prednisone can I lift 10 pound weights? sure you can but if your serious about gaining muscle mass then 10lb weights wont do it you might as well pick your pet cat up and swing it around your head (my apoligies to all animal lovers) weight training is called progressive resistance training and 10lbs is no resistance to the human frame think about it on average your head weighs around 14 to 22 lbs do you feel the strain? no of course you dont why? because your body gets used to the resistance of any weight so 10lbs then must become 12lbs 15lbs 20lbs etc so in essence you have to increase the weights repeatedly as your body demands more weight ie resistace to GROW got it so are you in a condition to repeatedly increase your workload or can you only use the 10lbs trust me dont swing iron unless you can up the workload sooner rather than later forget it just now wait till you are pred free then go start iron and like i said you will grow good muscle tissue and ill help you with diet and routine and you will go from mister blobby to mr universe amongst us weggies good luck take care Ian

[elephant]

Thanks Ian, I will wait and I really need that good advice. Hoping to get off prednisone in a year!

[Psyborg]

I'm sticking with light aerobic for now, well light compared to before I started getting sick. Riding my bike and walking pretty much as tolerated. Going to maybe try out a Yoga class at my gym tonight and see how it goes.

At what point would you consider the prednisone intake low enough to start with the lifting again? I know I'm way too high right now (35 mg), and not sure how the Dr will step it down once my actual treatment starts. I've actually got a decent routine that was given to me by a trainer after I had gastric bypass surgery last year. That's my biggest fear right now, the Pred has me eating more than I was able to before and my excercise routine is what I want it to be. At this point I'm still actually losing weight, and I'd like that to stop honestly, but I do worry that it's doing damage to my system long term.

[jola57]

Thanks Ian, learned something new today

[ian anderson]

I'm sticking with light aerobic for now, well light compared to before I started getting sick. Riding my bike and walking pretty much as tolerated. Going to maybe try out a Yoga class at my gym tonight and see how it goes.

At what point would you consider the prednisone intake low enough to start with the lifting again? I know I'm way too high right now (35 mg), and not sure how the Dr will step it down once my actual treatment starts. I've actually got a decent routine that was given to me by a trainer after I had gastric bypass surgery last year. That's my biggest fear right now, the Pred has me eating more than I was able to before and my excercise routine is what I want it to be. At this point I'm still actually losing weight, and I'd like that to stop honestly, but I do worry that it's doing damage to my system long term. how low does your preds have to be before you can lift weights ? well lets see fact is you have to be OFF preds and i mean off them completely remember your still under the influence of these meds after taking them so give it 6 months to let body return to normal function and your own cortisol production to kick in again then you can start using iron take care dont rush it Ian

[Psyborg]

Gotcha and thanks. Will have to consider the gym a place for aerobic only for a while.

[marta]

How about using your body for resistance to just keep your muscles toned? Squats, lunges, push-ups, abs.... stuff that will not make you grow, just keep you with the living in terms of tone. Aerobic does this too, but I think you can also control where 'things' move to and how your overall body looks without actually trying to look like Mr. Universe or Mrs. Universe in my case and lifting heavy weights or needing to up the load to make them grow. Any advice? I did P90X shortly before I got sick, and I have to say it was a great program, hard but good, and very positive results without bulking up. There are some awesome excercises in there that I think would be great for my condition now, of course turned down... way down... way way down.

[Sangye]

Marta, any stretch that puts a weight-bearing load on tendons/ligaments makes it easier to rupture them. The ones you listed (squats, lunges and push-ups) all do that. Yoga, tai chi and chi gong can safely be done, be careful to avoid any poses that put tendons/ligs under strain. Ab and core workouts are fine. The most vulnerable tendons and ligaments are those of the feet, ankles (esp Achilles tendon), knees (including hamstrings), wrists, elbows and shoulders.

Swimming is a great way to go also. It helps you keep flexible while decreasing load on the body. Aquatic jogging and related exercises can keep you in good shape safely.

[Doug]

Ian ~ Thanks for your contributions on exercise information!

Marta ~ What a beautiful avatar you have now! Even the family pooch gets in on that wonderful hug!

[Sangye]

Is there a way for me to enlarge an avatar to see it better? I didn't even notice the dog!

[pberggren1]

Where is the dog?

[pberggren1]

I wanna drive the Bimmer too!

[marta]

Is there a way for me to enlarge an avatar to see it better? I didn't even notice the dog!

Thanks Doug, but there is no dog. I think what you're seeing is my hair flying as the photo was taken while we were hugging and spinning at the same time (and there were no cheeks to get in the way when it was taken - ha ha.)
I'll keep switching the avatars, just to keep it different. I'll throw one in with the dog next time. Speaking of switching things up, I love Hammy's everchanging signatures.

[Doug]

Me too! They are hilarious!

[Hammy8241]

Me too! They are hilarious!

Thanks but don't encourage me, don't know how long I can keep it up for:o

Do I need to reword this?:)

[pberggren1]

That is a good question Hammy! I think I have seen a square lens before.

[jola57]

me too, my dad had an old accordeon like camera thast took old style (the subjects were upside down in the lens) sepia pictures

[marta]

Thanks but don't encourage me, don't know how long I can keep it up for:o
I will encourange anything that regularly makes me laugh, so consider yourself encouraged.