Ramipril, Atenolol, Perindopril?

[pberggren1]

I have an appointment tomorrow afternoon with my GP to discus my high bp and high hearth rate.

If I remember correctly, Jack, you said you were on Atenolol to control both a high bp and a high heart rate? Do you know anything about Perindopril?

I have been on Ramipril before and it seemed to work. Although I wasn't on pred the whole time I was on it either.

I think I will get my GP to check my cholesterol as well. I usually get it checked every year or so and it has always been good. I know I have cut back on the red meats in last 2 years and the refined carbs, sugars, and other processed and junk foods. Though I still have a long way to go to where my diet would be considered perfect. Well, I might as well be realistic and realize that I will probably never reach perfect all the time.

I went grocery shopping today and bought the following:

apples
oranges
blueberries
blackberries
raspberries
strawberries
ginger
broccoli
carrots
salad mix ( mostly romain lettuce )
some canned pears and peaches
flax bread
raisin bread
bananas
horse radish
dried apricots
raisins
mixed nuts and friut
peanut butter
pain yogurt
margarine
canned salmon
soy beverage
salsa
frozen pizza
frozen fish sticks
frozen lasgna
tartar sauce

I think that's it.

How does that sound to you Sangye?

I don't see my Rheumy and Pulmy until June 2. Does anyone think that I should wait until then to discuss my high bp and high heart rate or do it with my GP tomorrow?

I work nights on the weekends - so I am thinking this may have something to do with my low energy because it dirupts my sleep patterns. Any thoughts?

[elephant]

Here goes my two cents, Most of the foods on here are excellent! It is OK to eat once in a while frozen stuff. Your doing pretty good.
Phil I use to work nights 12 hours shifts and that is when my blood pressure and heart rate were worse. It seemed that I was more unhealthy when I worked nights...so I had to quick working because my blood pressure was out of control! Yes ,you will be extra tired and feel worn out most of the time when you work the night shift.
They did a study on RN's who worked nights and they found that they have a shorter life span...I think it was 10 years!

[pberggren1]

Thanks Elephant. I really appreciate your insight. It only makes sense that I would feel tired working nights on the weekends and then trying to be up during the day during the week. I din't know that working nights like that could make your bp and heart rate worse though. I may have to seriously consider quiting this job and maybe try to find something part time during the day.

I forgot to mention as well that my sinuses seem to be doing a little bit better. Though they are still a little bit tender and I still have crusting and bleeding a little as well and still cough up a few chunks and blood as well - I am quite certain, as well as my docs, that this is still post nasal.

[Sangye]

Phil, if you can find a day job that would be much better. People who consistently work nights have much higher rates of cancer due to the elevated pm cortisol levels. (Cortisol should peak in the morning and fall to zero by nighttime)

The one food to take off your list is margarine. Butter is a real and nutritious food and contrary to what MDs like to think, it has no negative effect on cholesterol. Otherwise, doesn't look so bad. You can balance out some of the processed food by eating fruits and veggies--looks like you're doing that.

[Lola]

Phil, I would certainly discuss heart rate and blood pressure with your GP. They are well equipped to handle these medical conditions.

[DEE]

phil i take Atenolol and preindopril as was having hard time getting bp and heartrate sorted
fine other than we think it was the preindopril that use to make hands shake for a few hours a day other than that things are much improved
heatrate alot better uniess i push myself to much and when my bp high its usually to me an indicator thats something not right usually in my case that i got an infection but that only because we can see a pattern
as everyone keeps telling us we are all different
i must also confess we used to eat a fair bit of frozen food when i was working long hours now only have frozen pizza or frozen meals that i make myself and store made from fresh veg and meats also helps to gt over bad dayswhen you can be bothered to cook hubby just a learner in cooking department as i have always done it
dont know why as he has made some great meals hope this been of some help DEEx

[Jack]

Atenolol did the trick for me in reducing blood pressure and stopping the palpitations that were getting quite severe. One word of warning if you start taking it - don't stop suddenly! I did when my pressure was getting a bit low and two days later, I thought I was going to die!

[pberggren1]

Thanks guys for your help.

Sangye, the reason I went for margarine this time is that I was going to try and eliminate dairy to see if it would decrease my mucus production. I once tried this before and found no change in mucus levels.

[Jack]

I have also tried eliminating dairy products to reduce the amount of mucus. It made no difference at all and I use it as a major source of nutrition now.

[DEE]

thats what i was trying to say jack but could not think how to spell palpitations !!!
do you find bp very all the time mine is in morning but raises durinf the day DEEx

[Jack]

It does fluctuate a bit, but I try not to measure it too often. It seemed to make a big jump when I had an embolism earlier in the year so that might be something to watch for.

[DEE]

thanks again jack have cut back on measuring too not so worried about now problem of the day breathless
hopeing just caused by rasied preds just on way to gp to give some more of the red stuff may get to see gp DEEx

[Jack]

Don't want to spread alarm, but those were my symptoms - breathless and fluctuating blood pressure. GP did not think it was an embolism, but a scan confirmed it.

[DEE]

just back from gp blood pressure up going to checklater today :- DEE X

[pberggren1]

I saw my GP today and he put me on Altace at 25mg for 2 weeks and then will reevaluate then and increase to 50 if needed.

On an unrelated subject I asked him if he knew of anything that might help to restore my sense of taste and smell. He said to try Ice Breakers gum because it has Xylitol in it. He said only this gum has this medical ingredient in it. I bought some and am going to try it. I noticed it does have aspertame in it as well.

[elephant]

Let me know how the gum works. Hope your blood pressure and heart rate go down. I take tenormin ( atenonol) beta blocker to reduce blood pressure and heart rate.

[Jack]

Mmmm....
Altace is kind to the kidneys, but will do nothing to regulate your heartbeat.

[pberggren1]

Jack:

My doc said that Altace is the same as Atenolol and will regulate heart beat and lower bp.

[Jack]

A quick Google says that it is the same as Ramipril which is an ACE inhibitor rather than Atenolol which is a Beta blocker. I've taken both together and it is definitely the Atenolol that stopped palpitations and brought them back with a vengeance when I stopped taking it, even though I was still taking Ramipril at the time. I now take only Atenolol.

[Lightwarrior]

A quick Google says that it is the same as Ramipril which is an ACE inhibitor rather than Atenolol which is a Beta blocker. I've taken both together and it is definitely the Atenolol that stopped palpitations and brought them back with a vengeance when I stopped taking it, even though I was still taking Ramipril at the time. I now take only Atenolol.


Altace is an Ace Inhibitor and Atenelol is a beta blocker.

[elephant]

Sometimes the Altace can increase your heart rate. I only take Atenelol, it does the trick!

[Sangye]

Lightwarrior, Elephant and Lola-- which are more dangerous, ACE inhibitors or Beta blockers? I remember we were warned about one in school but don't remember which.

[elephant]

With the beta blocker you have to check the patients pulse. If it is lower than 60, then don't give the Atenolol ( beta blocker), do not stop it suddenly...need to decrease the dosage slowly or you have a rebound .....the heart rate will go up. There are other adverse reactions.

[Lightwarrior]

Lightwarrior, Elephant and Lola-- which are more dangerous, ACE inhibitors or Beta blockers? I remember we were warned about one in school but don't remember which.

beta blockers block the effects of a hormone called epinephrine, which is adreniline, this causes the heart to beat slower, thereby reducing blood pressure. Epineprine is a drug used during resucition, it is extreme, i tell nurses that you could make a roast jump from the counter into your oven with enough epi but that doesn't mean the muscle will keep working when the epi runs out, when you need to block epinephrine you are increasing the ability of the heart to function more effeciently by decreasing the harshness. If you have asthma you should let your doc know before starting a beta blocker.

Angiotensin Converting Enzymes (ACE) inhibitors work by relaxing blood vessels. They do this by preventing your body from producing angiiotensin II, which is a substance that makes your blood vessels constrict and by releasing hormones to raise your blood pressure and make your heart work harder. So they prevent angiotensin from converting to angiotensin II. They can increase the heart rate and I there is a complication called angioedema which is a swelling of the upperairway. It is rare but I have seen it a few times and it is an emergency. If you develop a dry hacky cough you should notify your doc.

Okay, I know I can make a short story long but have trouble making a long story short. The short answer of which is more dangerous is .....it depends. A beta blocker slows the heart so if you have a heartbeat below 60 or feel dizzy you should hold the dose and notify your doctor. If you are taking an Ace and have a hight heart rate you should hold or if you feel your upper airway swelling you should notify your doc. Most people take either of these or a combination safely.

[pberggren1]

Sorry guys!

I made a mistake. I am on Atenolol.

[Jack]

Never mind - I gave us all something to sound off about! ;)

Hope it works for you as well as it seems to for others on here.

[Sangye]

Thanks, Lightwarrior! That was a great explanation (not too long for Too Long Sangye!) :D It was beta blockers we were warned about.

[DEE]

im taking atenolol and its working for me DEE x

[pberggren1]

Thanks again guys!

Everyone on this Forum means so much to me. I have a hard time explaining it in words. It is as if we were all meant to communicate with one another like this.

[Lola]

In the cardiology office if we patients with worsening kidney function we always either decrease or hold the ACE inhibitor. Standard protocols for post MI patients are beta blocker, Aspirin, statin and ACE. But the ACE is usually first to go.

[Doug]

"...The one food to take off your list is margarine. Butter is a real and nutritious food and contrary to what MDs like to think, it has no negative effect on cholesterol...."

You get the Julia Child's seal of approval! She spoke often about the goodness of butter and how she preferred the taste vs. fear of the health risks noted by the MDs. Of course,
she died in her 90's. Think she may have smoked, too. Drank like a fish (vintage, of course). Goodness.

[elephant]

Cheers to Julia Child! Need to get her cook book!

[Sangye]

I can do a wicked Julia Child impression. In case of emergency. :D

[Lola]

Cheers to Julia Child! Need to get her cook book!

Got the cookbook. Am reading it like a novel.

[elephant]

Wow, I would too read it like a novel. Then I would make sure that there are plastic saran wrap over it so the pages would not get wet when I read it. :)
Sangye, I would love to see your Julia Child impression. Let me get my depends on first!

[Doug]

I not only bought real butter today, I bought the salted kind. How bad axx is that?!

No, we need to remember what this thread is or our jolly selves will ruin yet another thread: Ramipril, Atenolol and Perindopril...
Talk 'em, up folks. I have butter to use.

[elephant]

So many uses with butter. Butter on bread, butter on potato, butter on muffins, butter on toast, butter on veggies, butter, butter, butter,...so good. Enjoy your Salted Butter! Let us know how it taste! :)

[Doug]

I'll tell you: "I Can't Believe It's Not I Can't Believe It's Not Butter" ~ smooth, velvety, umm, melted on that fresh broccoli I bought today. A little sea salt, lots of pepper, and I have steamed veggie delight! On my morning toast tomorrow, by itself or with some fruit preserves. Keep that coffee brewing!

[Lola]

Don't forget Julia's buttered omelet.

Oh, Oh! Andrew is going to yell at us.

[Sangye]

LOL-- definitely a buttered thread at this point. :D

[Doug]

Umm! Lola! You may have solved my problem of "What to fix for dinner tonight?" Bought more eggs today, too.

And Andrew would be within his rights to do it as Supreme Webmaster. Let's behave as of ..............NOW! Good Weggies! Good!

[elephant]

Good Weggies need to be buttered!

[pberggren1]

Well, here goes nothing!

I have been on the Atenolol for 7 days now and still have a high heart rate and a pounding in the chest feeling.

Should I have noticed some results by now or does it take a little longer?

I see my GP again on April 6 and if I still have these syptoms he will bump up the dose from 25 to 50mg.

[elephant]

Have you seen a cardiologist? They would prescribe you the tenormin ( atenonol) beta blocker too. Maybe you need a stress test and a echo cardiogram done.

[Jack]

Perhaps you need a higher dose? Mine worked right away.

[DEE]

i agree with jack it work for me straight away too DEEx

[Lola]

Phil, you're on a fairly low dose, but it can take up to 2 weeks before you might notice an improvement. Having you wait until 4/6 was probably wise, as that will be a fair trial time at 25mg, at which time the dose could be increased.

Better to be on the lowest effective dose than to overdue it - goes for any medication, don't you think?

[elephant]

Phil make sure you check your blood pressure often...I am sure you are already doing this. You don't want a sudden drop of blood pressure either. The docs had me on tenormin 50 at first and vasotec. Then within 6 months it they dropped the tenormin to 25 mg and then quickly my blood pressure dropped and I am on 12.5 mg. I cut the pill in half. Wish you fast relief, it is not fun having a fast heart rate.
You still may want to get your heart checked out too. I see a cardiologist every year and since WG silently likes to work havoc on us it's a good precaution.

[Jack]

I see my GP again on April 6 and if I still have these syptoms he will bump up the dose from 25 to 50mg.
I currently take 100mg. For a short time I was on 200, but this was too much and my heart rate was very low.

[elephant]

Wow Jack, I thought you were on 25 mg. Glad it works for you. We are all different.

[pberggren1]

I have never seen a cardiologist. I will talk to my Rheumy about this when I see her on June 2. Thanks guys.

[pberggren1]

I just got back from my GP appointment. He's going to keep me on teh 25mg of Atenolol because my bp and pulse are good right now. I told him I still have a little bit of the heart pounding feeling and felt that it is probably the pred. He agreed and said not to worry too much about it - it is fairly normal in a lot of people. My cholesterol was normal as well. All my other regular blood work was normal but the C-ANCA was still at 11.

[elephant]

Phil that ANCA is not bad at all. Mine was off the charts...to this day my ANCA is 39. I had a feeling your GP would keep you on Atenolol. Hang in there, and if you can get the blood pressure machine cheap somewhere, get one. It will ease your mind. Thanks Phil for letting us know how it went. Have a good night. :)

[Doug]

Dang you, elephant! I wanted to recommend to Phil that he buy a blood pressure machine! That's the way it goes when I stay off the website for a little bit of time. Excellent idea, though, Phil. I agree with elephant 2000% on buying one.

They are generally pretty reliable, and you probably can find one at Wal-mart or a chain drugstore for CAN$100 or so, perhaps less. I do suggest whichever machine you buy that it is the best quality one you can afford.

Take your blood pressure at different times of the day at first, just to get a sense of how much variation there is in a normal blood pressure (which you seem to have again, thank goodness!). Keep a simple log of your readings, time of day, date, and any information that might relate to the reading: exercise, hearing bad news, anxiety, eating a meal (!), sitting down, standing. Please note that how you hold your arm and which arm you use makes a difference.

There is some technique- not much, just some- in getting consistent, credible readings that you can share with your GP or any other doctor interested in this. After you experiment around, then settle on a time or times of the day to take measurements, you might even want to piddle around on a spreadsheet (if you are familiar; if not, ask around and find someone who can help you- if you have Excel, I could e-mail you a file, in that spreadsheet, for example, that wouldn't be too wearing to use, and would be helpful for spotting trends up or down, or the effects of changes in medications that affect heartbeat and blood pressure).

Elephant and I expect nothing less from you, friend! And we are pushy as all get out- nag, nag, nag! You know we will do it, too, Phil!

[elephant]

Yea were the Nag gang. :) We want the best for you Phil! There will be a time when someone will nag on me. Just wait. :)
Doug that is a good idea about the spreadsheet.

[Doug]

Yea were the Nag gang. :) We want the best for you Phil! There will be a time when someone will nag on me. Just wait. :)
Doug that is a good idea about the spreadsheet.

Especially if it's used to create living charts that show trends. Some of the anxiety of blood pressure changes is not recognizing just how variable it is during the day and how many things can throw it off oner direction or another.

[pberggren1]

I was never good at using Excel. It just gave me headaches and stressed me out. I would like to use it though Doug so if you could e-mail that file that would be great. Be prepared though for a lot of questions.

I will start looking around this week for a blood pressure machine. Can anyone recommend a particular brand that is good?

Right now I am feeling pretty drained and overall crappy feeling. Actually I have felt like this mostly for the last week or so. It is a strange feeling, kind of like a headache and the teeth hurt sometimes as well. It is more like a general lack of energy or weakness. Still cant smell or taste very well. I was able to taste yesterday for a short while - I went to my friends restaurant and had a beef taco salad and it was very good with lots of beef and salsa. I know I shouldn't have had the beef but I could smell it and I wanted to taste something so bad and actually enjoy a meal. Well actually it was more like inhale a meal. I also find that I am more sensitive to sunlight than normal. I work nights on weekends and am contemplating quiting this job so that I can get my days and nights straightened out to see if that improves my overall well being. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. This feeling I have had the last week is like being hung over as well. But I haven't touched the conac for a while now.

[Sangye]

Phil, a mid-priced bp monitor is fine. More expensive ones have bells and whistles you probably don't need.

I'm concerned about how you're feeling. I think it's worth a call to your doc to check since it's gone on for several days. I think it's a great idea to get a daytime only job. Working at night a little or a lot really messes up the body, even in a healthy person.

[pberggren1]

I agree with the night work thing.

I will see how things go over the weekend and decide on Monday what to do.

[elephant]

Phil, if your teeth hurt and it continues it is usually a sinus infection or your sinuses are really swollen. I had multilple CT scans of my sinuses and they were very inflamed due to the WG. I had four sinus surgeries in the last two years.
Did you have a CT of your sinuses recently?
I use to work 12 hour nights at a hospital. It really messed up my pulse and blood pressure. I even had severe head aches and chest pain. It was so bad on my body, I had to go back to days.
I get the feeling and I can't remember if your WG is still active.

[jola57]

Phil, I have bad teeth to begin with, 2 need root canals and i often get that funny hurt/tickle feeling in my teeth. It goes away by itself in a couple of days. i know i should go to a dentist but i am such a big chicken and hate being frozen. If they put me to sleep i might have them done, but I don't qualify. You have your sinuses affected by Wegs, so i think that may be part of it and your sense of smell as well. Glad you enjoyed the taco, good one :) at least something went right ha ha ha

[pberggren1]

As far as I know Elephant my Wegs is not active right now.

I had a CT of my sinuses back in 2008 I think and a head x-ray last October.

[elephant]

You might suggest getting a CT of your sinuses, if your sinuses and smell/taste are not getting better. I strongly recommend it, I waited years and now I have severe damage in my left maxillary, mod damage to left ear, mild damage to left eye.
I know this is over whelming, just want to save you from getting any sinus surgeries.

[pberggren1]

Thanks Elephant. The CT scheduled for May 19 is of the chest and nasopharynx.