Death from meds?

[lovetoswim]

I recently read this article (2017) from Medical News Today, (Wegener's granulomatosis, or granulomatosis with polyangiitis (GPA) - Medical News Today (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/187807.php))
and wondered if anyone has known of or heard of this:

Granulomatosis with polyangiitis (GPA) requires long-term immunosuppression. Some patients die due to the toxicity of the treatment.

[Pete]

Yeah, some of the meds can be toxic and some have death listed as a side effect. Some of that is legal stuff. Some is legit.

Weggies generally take cytotoxins (cytoxan or methotrexate) in very small doses compared to a cancer patient. Rituximab and azathioprine can cause severe allergic reactions that could cause death. Cellcept is a drug I know little about. All of these drugs are given under very close medical supervision -- meaning frequent labs and discussions with your docs regarding any significant anomalies.

The bottom line here is that the probability of your meds killing you is much lower than dying from improperly treated or untreated wegs. If you're receiving proper wegs treatment, you'll probably die of something else.

Hope all is going well otherwise.

[renidrag]

Well said Pete!

[annekat]

True, of the few Weggie Warriors I've known who have died, I don't think any of them were directly from the meds. Some were from kidney failure, which can only be prevented by the meds.. others were from sepsis, usually in the hospital, a massive blood infection that is hard to fight off. And some notable ones have indeed fought it off and are OK today. It's not uncommon in the general population, and precautions may be taken...Look it up.

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[lovetoswim]

Thanks, I have an appointment at Univ of Penn in 2 weeks with an associate of Dr. Merkel. She specializes in vasculitis. The irony is that my worst complaint is a bout for a year and a half of sinusitis, finishing off 2016 with pneumonia and the flu. After several rounds of Doxycycline, I am feeling better than I've felt in years. I gained 5 pounds and have been working out 2 hours a day for the last month. I'm so hesitant to take medication when I feel this good. It doesn't make sense to me. I teach children and they are major germ carriers, and being on meds that compromise your immune system may mean I have to quit my job.

[annekat]

All of that is understandable, Irene. I think it will be good for you to see the rheumy and get an explanation about your high pANCA and if Vasculitis is likely to be responsible for what you went through earlier. Since you are feeling so great and have the energy to work out, she may be reluctant to put you on any high doses of meds, if any, and will give you answers about what kind of biopsy, if any, you should get. If there is no apparent vasculitis activity, there may be no logical place to do a biopsy. As for being around kids, there are precautions you can take, such as frequent hand-washing and use of hand sanitizers..
I've been selling to the public at a farmers market since having WG and only got a cold once in 6 years, and don't even know if that's where I got it. Handling money is a big one, so the same applies when grocery shopping, touching shopping carts, etc. Anyway, a few on here have reported they really don't get sick any more than they ever did.. our immune system is suppressed, but not eliminated. The rheumy can set your mind at ease about a lot of things, I suspect, and it's good you chose to see her instead of an ENT or pulmy at this point. She will have a good overview and is in great company with Dr. Merkel. I don't know enough about ANCA to know if a healthy person can have a positive reading. I do know that pANCA is more commonly associated with Microscopic Polyangiitis (MPO), while C-ANCA applies more to WG, but Weggies can have either​ or both. That's about all I know! Good luck, and we'll be waiting to hear!

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[lovetoswim]

Thanks, Anne. I don't know what I would do without your informative and supportive replies.:hug2: I am terrified. I've been a "health nut" my whole life, planning to drop dead in my 90's while running or swimming. Never in my 60's did I expect this. This appointment can't come soon enough.

[Arleta]

Thanks, I have an appointment at Univ of Penn in 2 weeks with an associate of Dr. Merkel. She specializes in vasculitis. The irony is that my worst complaint is a bout for a year and a half of sinusitis, finishing off 2016 with pneumonia and the flu. After several rounds of Doxycycline, I am feeling better than I've felt in years. I gained 5 pounds and have been working out 2 hours a day for the last month. I'm so hesitant to take medication when I feel this good. It doesn't make sense to me. I teach children and they are major germ carriers, and being on meds that compromise your immune system may mean I have to quit my job.
I was a teacher when I became sick and was diagnosed. I was on medical leave for 5 months, but went back and taught for 6 more years while on Imuran. At that point I was retirement age. I got pneumonia my first year back, but after that I missed very few days.

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[lovetoswim]

Hi Arieta, can I ask why you were on medical leave? Was it from the medications?

[Arleta]

It was to recover from Wegener's. I had a hard onset of it. Started with what I thought was a cold and then traveling arthritis. Then I became really out of breath and I was coughing up blood. My GP thought I had pneumonia. This all happened within a 2 week period. From there I went downhill fast, was admitted to the hospital, and had a lung biopsy because the pulminologist suspected Wegener's. I was in ICU for a week and then another 2 weeks on another unit. I went to Cleveland Clinic because of severe kidney involvement. I was in the hospital for another 3 weeks with major blood clot issues. So it took awhile to recover from everything. I was on prednisone and cytoxin for awhile, and then on Imuran, which I am still on. I have tried to lower the dosage twice, but symptoms come back. I think I will be on it the rest of my life.


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[annekat]

Well, it is good that Imuran is working for you, Arleta, since it isn't considered one of the stronger "heavy hitters", which seem to carry more risks. You had a harder time of it than I did, but I also took CTX, and have now been on Methotrexate for a few years, and it seems to work for me, along with pred. I'm just as glad, so far, not to have to go the RTX route, even though so many seem to do well on it.

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[lovetoswim]

Arieta, you certainly were hit hard. Was that your first experience with Weg-related issues? I know how distressed you must feel, preparing to enjoy the next phase of life - retirement with your husband. Hopefully, your quality of life will resume. From all the supportive posts I've read here, it seems to be something we can look forward to. I am still working part time, and summer is finally approaching, a time when tennis, swimming, and beach trips are what we northerners live for. The thought of being stuck in the house sick from medications gives me such anxiety. OTOH, the onset you had certainly makes one realize how important a diagnosis and treatment is to get back to our life. Hope you are feeling better soon.

[annekat]

Irene, from the sound of how good you feel, even if you are put on some moderate schedule of meds, I doubt you will be stuck in the house and​ away from the sun. The meds can be gotten used to, and it might not take long. When I was really sick, I think WG itself made me feel worse than the meds. Once I felt better and was out and about, I'd pretty well gotten used to the meds. Just take it one day at a time.

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[Arleta]

I was actually diagnosed 8 years ago. At this time I am doing pretty well, all things considered. I have some permanent damage from the bloodclots which affect my legs (swelling) and other things that manifest if I overdo it...like shopping, etc., but I really feel very thankful considering what it could be. I just have to pace myself. Thanks for your concern!

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[lovetoswim]

Hey Anne, my post sounded so "immature" complaining about missing the summer. I think what has me the most upset is that we only have a few months to enjoy life outside and I hate the thought of starting these meds now. I also have always lived every day to the fullest, exercising at least 2 hours a day for the last 30 years, eating well, keeping on top of my health. It's ironic. I realize from some of these stories that not taking the med could be much worse.

[annekat]

Not immature, a legitimate concern... We all need the sun! I think after talking to the rheumy, you'll feel more encouraged. Everyone handles the meds a little differently. Maybe you'll just get a small dose, if any, since you aren't currently having symptoms of active disease. Maybe she'll just want to keep an eye on you in case things flare up again.

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[marta]

Hi Irene,

I'm chirping in. I totally understand your frustration. I too have lived a very healthy lifestyle, everything I eat, I make from scratch, lots of outdoors, lots of exercise, and bam, Wegener's. I was very upset about it at the onset. Funnily enough, I have been asked if I'd change it if I could, and my answer is no. I have learned so much about myself, about life, and have gained friends I would never have met without WG, so it's all perspective.

I get the meds thing. I think it's a very fine line. The risk-benefit assessment with Wegs is a difficult one. The heavy guns, as Anne called them, Rituxin, and Cytoxin, are the more dangerous ones as they render us susceptible to other agents that can off us. A lot of the celebs that have died as a result of 'complications' of Autoimmune Disease go because the drugs create their own set of problems. I know Al that was on here, passed from sepsis, a fear he held onto strongly, due to the compromised immune system. The issue is that without treatment, the disease will most likely get you, with treatment, you know the things you have to be careful with and you can control the element of danger more tightly than letting Wegener's roam freely through your body. The trick is to get a good doctor who gets it. Another potential killer is either not enough treatment or too much treatment, so I think your destination and your new doctor are a combination that puts you squarely on top of the best outcome pyramid.

Time and being involved with the treatment, learning as much as you can, and being vigilant and self assured is the key to success with this disease. In no time, you'll know more about this disease than most general practitioners, and that's kind of cool. I go into my GP's now and just tell them what I need, we have a good visit, and carry on.

Best of luck in this journey. It's certainly not a boring one. And I can guarantee you'll come out of it many brain neurons richer.

marta

[lovetoswim]

Hi Marta. Thanks for your encouraging words. I think you are a much better person that I, b/c I can't imagine ever preferring any of these awful autoimmune diseases over a normal, healthy life. I understand the dilemma with meds vs. just taking a chance and hoping that one doesn't have a life threatening onset. I hope I don't have to make that decision. how did you learn you had Wegs? What meds were/are you on?

[marta]

Hi again,

I'm no better than anyone, I just have the benefit of time on my side. I've just had it for a longer time and have gotten past the gross stage of "holy crap, I've got what???", to actually spending some high quality time with people I've met on this forum, to experiencing starting a foundation because of this, and having the opportunity of helping people I've never met, to getting a whole town wearing PJ's for at least 5 years to raise awareness and unite in the name of something worthwhile, to getting a TV show to come to my home town and do their whole 3 hour live show in PJ's talking about autoimmune disease while much of the town participated, to talk radio, to being on the news to raise awareness, to getting published in a medical journal with an amazing doctor I wouldn't have ever met otherwise, to becoming a patient who feels on equal ground as the physicians they see.... there has been so many cool things that have come out of this for me in the last seven years. I have lost some of my strength, but I've gained so much more in return. The first year kind of sucks. But it's only a short period of time relative to the rest of your life.

One day, when you get past this, you too might feel the same. Who knows what the future holds. Just try and find something beautiful in each day and it might lessen the blow of WG.

I was on cytoxin for one year, was about to go on methotrexate as a maintenance but never did. I had a flare (vaccine induced, my onset was triggered by the H1N1 vaccine too) and had to switch docs in the midst of it as my old rheumy completely gave up on me and left me hanging. I found my current doctor who is a vasculitis specialist and in my eyes the most amazing doctor on planet earth, ha ha, slightly biased, and then she got me on RTX. I've had a total of three RTX treatments since 2011, last one being last June (2016) and I use Imuran as a maintenance. I'm also allergic to Bactrim, so I take Dapsone to prevent PCP pneumonia from settling in. Also pred of course, and then some other stuff to offset pred side effects when I was on the high doses. I'm now off pred (about two/three weeks now) and just taking imuran, dapsone, and blood thinners, as I got pulmonary embolism(s) on my last flare a year ago.

Here's how it all started for me if you're interested. Weggies Unite: How it all started (http://weggiesunite.blogspot.ca/p/how-it-all-started.html)
I have a problem saying things succinctly :) and tend to babble on, sorry.

[lovetoswim]

Hi Marta, I am very interested in hearing about other people's experiences with WG. Since you are an avid athlete like myself, the hardest part for me is taking these awful drugs. The only drug I am addicted to is caffeine and my glass of red wine with dinner every evening. I hope I don't have to give up my wine, it's the only thing that relaxes me. Exercise works, of course, but only if I exercise all day, and that's not possible at my age. :)

I've always suffered from anxiety and used to have panic attacks. I had to give in and am on Lexapro (the lowest dose) and I think it really only works b/c I mentally believe it works. I went off Lexapro years ago and within weeks, suffered an onset of vertigo that lasted almost a year. I couldn't swim, walk at night, use an electric toothbrush, and felt awful. The only thing I could do was walk.

You've certainly become an amazing advocate and done some incredible work to further knowledge of WG. I can't wait to read your story.

I was going to get my pneumonia shot, now that I feel so good. Perhaps I'll wait until my Un. of Penn appoint next week. Daily, I tell myself this is a mistake, b/c I feel so good now.

Am I correct that your first serious onset followed a vaccine?

[marta]

Hi Marta, I am very interested in hearing about other people's experiences with WG. Since you are an avid athlete like myself, the hardest part for me is taking these awful drugs. The only drug I am addicted to is caffeine and my glass of red wine with dinner every evening. I hope I don't have to give up my wine, it's the only thing that relaxes me. Exercise works, of course, but only if I exercise all day, and that's not possible at my age. :)

I've always suffered from anxiety and used to have panic attacks. I had to give in and am on Lexapro (the lowest dose) and I think it really only works b/c I mentally believe it works. I went off Lexapro years ago and within weeks, suffered an onset of vertigo that lasted almost a year. I couldn't swim, walk at night, use an electric toothbrush, and felt awful. The only thing I could do was walk.

You've certainly become an amazing advocate and done some incredible work to further knowledge of WG. I can't wait to read your story.

I was going to get my pneumonia shot, now that I feel so good. Perhaps I'll wait until my Un. of Penn appoint next week. Daily, I tell myself this is a mistake, b/c I feel so good now.

Am I correct that your first serious onset followed a vaccine?

Hi Irene,

Here's a link to a few Weggie stories going by a similar outline to follow that we were thinking would make a good book of experiences (I still plan on using them later on.) Weggies Unite: Other Weggie Stories (http://weggiesunite.blogspot.ca/p/other-weggie-stories.html)

I know what you mean about the feeling of having lost all you've kind of felt like you were working for by being healthy, active, and eating the right stuff all your life. I've personally always used exercise for the fun factor and have gotten the strength as an accidental side effect. To me the kick in the head was missing out on my 'fun' by not being able to be physical in the great outdoors. I went back to skiing pretty quickly after diagnosis, since the lifts help on the way up and gravity helps on the way down, turning and stopping don't suck up that much energy. Now I've got the new e-assist mountain bike, and can have fun with my hubby on the mountain bike trails - again. I can't say in words how happy and thrilled I am to get to do that again. I too have a 'slight' caffeine addiction. When I first got on the cocktail after diagnosis, I was told by the pharmacist that I can't drink coffee, so I didn't for more than a half a year. I learned on this forum that this was not the case and after some further research, I went back to my old friend, caffeine.

I am only an 'advocate' because it's my coping mechanism. I feel like the gross stuff needs to be negated by something positive for it to be worth the experience, so I do stuff to negate the grossness that is Wegener's. It also forces me to focus my attention on positive rather than negative. I know I have a personality flaw that gnaws on me if I complain about something and don't put the effort into trying to come up with a solution rather than just complain. I know it drives people around me nuts, but they're kind and humour me. ha ha.

I do believe that the H1N1 vaccine triggered my onset of WG. I've done considerable research on this, and it seems to support my hypothesis. I've also got some solid docs backing up my theory. I hadn't made the connection at the getgo, but after a flare (only days after I got a flu shot 7 months after diagnosis) it was Sangye's help and others on this forum that helped me initially connect the dots, and then I started to research the possibility that this was the case. The evidence is strong that this was the case. So I have an aversion to vaccines, but this is my experience and does not reflect a communal experience in any way. We all have our own triggers, and this happened to be mine. It's just worth a question (if you talk about risk-benefit) if you have a disease where the immune system is 'confused' is it the best idea to play with subcutaneous concoctions that are designed to mess around with your immune system. That's my stance, and I don't suggest anyone follow it and make their decisions based on their own experience. I know how divisive the vaccine question can get, and I'm not at all interested in starting a debate on this.

[SophiasMom]

Wow, I've read several posts of people diagnosed that were considered health conscious...same for me. A year or so prior to my horrible diagnosis experience, I ate very little sugar, very little gluten, mostly whole foods, and led an active lifestyle. I was also really angry and frustrated after I made it through the initial diagnosis and 31 day hospital stay. I finally came to the point that I realized...maybe my healthy lifestyle helped me get through it. My doctors weren't sure I was going to make it. Anyway, I hear what you are saying about the vaccines. Have always followed the controversy with interest. But, for now...I do what my doctors say. I got the flu shot followed by the pneumonia shot. I just pray a lot. :)

[lovetoswim]

I've been putting off getting the pneumonia shot. My appt with the Penn rheumy is next week. i will learn more at that time.

[Alias]

Yes, it's a big blow to go from being robustly healthy to having a chronic illness. Psychologically it's quite an adjustment. It seems especially "unfair" to be struck with something like this out of the blue when you take pride in leading a healthy life.

(p.s., I got all the recommended vaccines: flu, pneumonia, and shingles)

[Arleta]

Wow! You got a shingles shot? I thought we couldn't get that since it is a live virus.

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[lovetoswim]

[QUOTE=Alaskatom;110951]Yes, it's a big blow to go from being robustly healthy to having a chronic illness. Psychologically it's quite an adjustment. It seems especially "unfair" to be struck with something like this out of the blue when you take pride in leading a healthy life.

(p.s., I got all the recommended vaccines: flu, pneumonia, and shingles)[/QUOTE

Alaskatom, well put. It's a blow to my ego, I must admit. I've done all I can to live a long and healthy life (as long as nature or violence don't occur), never expected this.

[lovetoswim]

Marta, those are such emotional stories from Other Weggies. Very inspiring and encouraging. Thank you again!

[lovetoswim]

Wow, I've read several posts of people diagnosed that were considered health conscious...same for me. A year or so prior to my horrible diagnosis experience, I ate very little sugar, very little gluten, mostly whole foods, and led an active lifestyle. I was also really angry and frustrated after I made it through the initial diagnosis and 31 day hospital stay. I finally came to the point that I realized...maybe my healthy lifestyle helped me get through it. My doctors weren't sure I was going to make it. Anyway, I hear what you are saying about the vaccines. Have always followed the controversy with interest. But, for now...I do what my doctors say. I got the flu shot followed by the pneumonia shot. I just pray a lot. :)

Hi SophiasMom, I sent you a private message.

[Alias]

Possibly it depends on extent of disease and what treatment you are undergoing. I was told to get the shingles vaccine after I was below 20mg of prednisone. Generally they do not give the vaccine for folks under 60, but it was prescribed for me specifically because I am immune compromised, and thus more susceptible to shingles than the general population.

btw I just did a search and confirmed that the vaccine (even though it is "live") is considered safe for those on lower doses of steroids and MTX. I'm sure this varies by patient, physician, and treatment plan.

[Arleta]

Thanks for the info. I will check with my rheumi!

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[Bing505z]

I was on cytoxin for one year, was about to go on methotrexate as a maintenance but never did. I had a flare (vaccine induced, my onset was triggered by the H1N1 vaccine too) and had to switch docs in .

Mine also. In fact I believe other vaccines can cause autoimmune diseases. Yehuda Shoenfeld works at Sheba Medical Center (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheba_Medical_Center) in Tel HaShomer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_HaShomer) and the Sackler Faculty of Medicine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sackler_Faculty_of_Medicine) at Tel-Aviv University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel-Aviv_University). He is the incumbent of the Laura Schwarz-Kipp Chair for Research of Autoimmune Diseases. Shoenfeld is the editor of two journals, Harefuah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harefuah) (Medicine) in Hebrew with English abstracts and Israel Medical Association Journal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Medical_Association_Journal) (IMAJ). He is editor-in-chief of Autoimmunity Reviews, and co-editor of the Journal of Autoimmunity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Autoimmunity).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehuda_Shoenfeld


Here is an article:

Vaccines and autoimmunity

Nancy Agmon-Levin, Ziv Paz, Eitan Israeli & Yehuda Shoenfeld
Abstract

Vaccines have been used for over 200 years and are the most effective way of preventing the morbidity and mortality associated with infections. Like other drugs, vaccines can cause adverse events, but unlike conventional medicines, which are prescribed to people who are ill, vaccines are administered to healthy individuals, thus increasing the concern over adverse reactions. Most side effects attributed to vaccines are mild, acute and transient; however, rare reactions such as hypersensitivity, induction of infection, and autoimmunity do occur and can be severe and even fatal. The rarity and subacute presentation of post-vaccination autoimmune phenomena means that ascertaining causality between these events can be difficult. Moreover, the latency period between vaccination and autoimmunity ranges from days to years. In this article, on the basis of published evidence and our own experience, we discuss the various aspects of the causal and temporal interactions between vaccines and autoimmune phenomena, as well as the possible mechanisms by which different components of vaccines might induce autoimmunity.

http://www.nature.com/nrrheum/journal/v5/n11/full/nrrheum.2009.196.html (http://www.nature.com/nrrheum/journal/v5/n11/full/nrrheum.2009.196.html)



Vaccines and Autoimmune Diseases of the Adult (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Hedi-Orbach/2010/02/04/vaccines-and-autoimmune-diseases-of-the-adult/)

Published on February 4, 2010

Author: Hedi Orbach (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Hedi-Orbach/)
Specialty: Immunology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/immunology), Rheumatology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/rheumatology), Microbiology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/microbiology), Infectious Diseases (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/infectious-diseases)
Institution: Department of Medicine B, Wolfson Medical Center
Address: Holon, Israel
Author: Nancy Agmon-Levin (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Nancy-Agmon-Levin/)Specialty: Immunology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/immunology), Rheumatology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/rheumatology), Microbiology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/microbiology), Infectious Diseases (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/infectious-diseases)
Institution: Center for Autoimmune Diseases & Department of Medicine B, Sheba Medical Center
Address: Ramat Gan, Israel
Author: Gisele Zandman-Goddard (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Gisele-Zandman-Goddard/)Specialty: Immunology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/immunology), Rheumatology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/rheumatology), Microbiology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/microbiology), Infectious Diseases (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/author/specialty/infectious-diseases)
Institution: Department of Medicine C, Wolfson Medical Center
Address: Holon, Israel
Institution: Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University
Address: Tel-Aviv, Israel




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Abstract: Infectious agents contribute to the environmental factors involved in the development of autoimmune diseases possibly through molecular mimicry mechanisms. Hence, it is feasible that vaccinations may also contribute to the mosaic of autoimmunity. Evidence for the association of vaccinations and the development of these diseases is presented in this review. Infrequently reported post-vaccination autoimmune diseases include systemic lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory myopathies, multiple sclerosis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, and vasculitis. In addition, we will discuss macrophagic myofasciitis, aluminum containing vaccines, and the recent evidence for autoimmunity following human papilloma virus vaccine.


Introduction
Systemic and organ-specific autoimmune diseases are known to develop following infectious triggers. Recently we have suggested that certain autoimmune diseases like systemic lupus erythematosus (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/systemic-lupus-erythematosus/) (SLE (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/sle/)) may result due to specific viral agents. Furthermore, the spectrum of disease may be influenced by a certain microbial agent in the genetically predisposed individual (Zandman-Goddard et al., 2009).
Vaccines are a prototypic source for natural immune stimulation, but may be involved in pathogenic disease in the setting of aberrant immune system function. Possibly, the burden on the immune system resulting from simultaneous multiple vaccines and even the different types of vaccines may also be an overwhelming challenge in the autoimmune prone individual (Shoenfeld et al., 2008). In this review, we discuss the evidence for the development of autoimmune diseases following infections and vaccinations.
While vaccinations are generally safe, warranted and have virtually eradicated endemic diseases and probably lessened morbidity and mortality, a question arises regarding the evaluation of possible autoimmune phenomena in vaccinated individuals.
Reported post-vaccination (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/preventive-medicine/vaccination/) autoimmune diseases in the adult include SLE, rheumatoid arthritis (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/rheumatoid-arthritis/) (RA), inflammatory myopathies (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/neurology/inflammatory-myopathies/), multiple sclerosis (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/neurology/multiple-sclerosis/) (MS), Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), and vasculitis (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/vasculitis/). Evidence for the association of vaccinations and the development of these diseases is presented in this review. In addition, we will discuss macrophagic myofasciitis (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/neurology/macrophagic-myofasciitis/), post aluminum containing vaccines and the recent support for autoimmunity (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/immunology/autoimmunity-immunology-medical-specialties/) following human papilloma virus vaccine.
The Role of Infections in the Induction of Autoimmune Diseases
Infections, including viruses, bacteria, parasites and fungi, have pivotal roles as environmental factors contributing to the mosaic of autoimmune diseases (Shoenfeld et al., 2008).
Evidence exists for the association of streptococcus pyogenes (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/species-and-cell-types/bacterium/streptococcus-pyogenes/) infection with the development of rheumatic fever (Cunningham et al., 1988), Trypanosoma cruzi parasitic infection and Chagas disease cardiomyopathy (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/cardiology-and-circulation/cardiomyopathy/) (Cunha-Neto et al., 1995), the spirochete Borrelia burgdorfeii and Lyme disease (Chen et al., 1999), Campylobacter jejuni (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/species-and-cell-types/bacterium/campylobacter-jejuni/) infection and Guillain-Barré syndrome (Vucic et al., 2009; Khamaisi et al., 2004; Yuki, 2007), viral infections and diabetes (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/endocrinology/diabetes/) mellitus I (Goldberg et al., 2009), Chlamydia (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/infectious-diseases/sexually-transmitted-diseases/chlamydia/) pneumoniae and Epstein-Barr virus (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/species-and-cell-types/virus/epstein-barr-virus/) (EBV (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/ebv/)) and multiple sclerosis (Ercolini et al., 2009; Bagert, 2009), and EBV infection and SLE (Zandman-Goddard et al., 2009; Pender, 2003). Our group recently screened more than 1,300 patients with different autoimmune diseases and found a significant association of hepatitis C virus (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/species-and-cell-types/virus/hepatitis-c-virus/) with other diseases including autoimmune thyroiditis, Crohn’s disease, pemphigus vulgaris, antiphospholipid syndrome, and vasculitides. In addition, in this study, EBV was found to be linked to SLE, RA, pemphigus vulgaris, giant cell arteritis, Wegener’s granulomatosis, polyarteritis nodosa, MS, Sjogren’s syndrome, and polymyositis (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/polymyositis/) (Kivity et al., 2009).
The Role of Vaccines in the Induction of Autoimmune Diseases
SLE
SLE patients show decreased immune responsiveness and are vulnerable for infectious diseases (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/infectious-diseases/), due to the underlying disease and the frequent use of immunosuppressive drugs (Zandman-Goddard et al., 2005).
In studies of more than 10 patients, the reported manifestations following hepatitis B (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/infectious-diseases/hepatitis-b/) vaccination were arthritis, thrombocytopenia, demyelinating encephalitis, and demyelinating neuropathy (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/neurology/neuropathy/). A case-control study of 265 newly diagnosed lupus patients did not show that HBV (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/hbv/) vaccine was a risk factor for developing SLE [odds ratio (OR)-1.4] (Schattner, 2005). In a current study, 10 lupus patients were diagnosed within several days and up to one year following hepatitis B vaccination (Agmon-Levin et al., 2009). Previously, 11 cases were reported in the literature regarding the onset or exacerbation of SLE post hepatitis B vaccination (Schattner, 2005).
In concordance, a latency period of less than one week and up to 2 years between vaccination and SLE onset was reported. The classical period between vaccination and autoimmunity (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/autoimmunity/) was considered to be several weeks, similarly to the time frame suggested in the past for post-infectious autoimmunity phenomena. Interestingly, in this case series, 70% of patients continued their immunization (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/preventive-medicine/immunization/) protocol although adverse events were documented. Similarly, in previously reported cases, the affected subjects continued to be vaccinated and aggravation of their condition by additional doses was documented (Agmon-Levin et al., 2009). Overall, SLE patients presented post hepatitis B vaccination with mild to moderate disease and without life threatening organ involvement.
A summary of the serious autoimmune adverse events following vaccination with hepatitis B vaccination reported to the vaccine adverse events reporting system (VAERS) include in descending order by odds ratio: RA (OR-18), optic neuritis (OR-14), SLE (OR-9.1), alopecia (OR-7.2), MS (OR-5.2), and vasculitis (OR-2.6). Many of the adverse events associated with hepatitis B vaccination were extra-hepatic and are manifestations of infection with HBV. In addition to the potential epitopes in the HBsAg (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/hbsag/) (HBV surface antigen) vaccine, adjuvants containing aluminum and mercury may provide potential antigenic stimulation (Geier et al., 2005).
Routine influenza (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/infectious-diseases/influenza/) vaccination of SLE patients seems indicated although the activation of an autoimmune response is feasible. Of 10 studies on 265 SLE patients that received influenza vaccine (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/preventive-medicine/immunization/influenza-vaccine/) (with a follow-up period of 4-24 weeks) only 6 were reported to develop a flare, of those two patients had renal involvement (Conti et al., 2008; Del Porto et al., 2008; Holvast et al., 2007; Abu-Shakra et al., 2007). It is not clear that the composition of the modern vaccines is identical to those of over 30 years ago when most of the studies were performed.
In SLE, the immune response to influenza vaccination led to a blunted humoral response (Holvast et al., 2007). Generally, in the lupus patient in remission, flares are infrequent and influenza vaccine can be administered without harm. Why a few lupus patients had a flare following influenza immunization as evaluated utilizing the systemic lupus erythematosus disease activity index (SLEDAI) score is yet to be established (Abu-Shakra et al., 2007).
In a small observational study on 24 lupus patients, the 23 serotype pneumococcal vaccine did not confer disease activity (Elkayam et al., 2005).
Multiple sclerosis
Neurological manifestations are common following vaccinations (Huynh et al., 2008).In a case-control epidemiological study for serious adverse events reported in the hepatitis B vaccination exposed group compared to those that received tetanus vaccine, MS was prominent with an odds ratio of 5.2 (P<0.0003). Optic neuritis was also very commonly encountered (OR-14, p<0.0002) (Geier et al., 2005).
Guillain-Barré syndrome
In GBS, activated macrophages invade intact myelin sheaths resulting in myelin damage and demyelination (Vucic et al., 2009).
Vaccines reported as associated with GBS are diverse (Schonberger et al., 1979; Hemachudha et al., 1988; Khamaisi et al., 2004; CDC, 2006; Slade et al., 2009; Haber et al., 2009). The evidence of casual relationship with GBS is strongest with the swine flu (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/flu/) (H1N1 (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/species-and-cell-types/virus/influenza-a/h1n1/)) vaccine that was used in 1976-7. An increased relative risk [relative risk (RR)-4-8] to develop GBS 6-8 weeks after the injection was encountered in the vaccinated group compared to the non vaccinated group. The risk for GBS was slightly less than 1 excess case of GBS per 100,000 vaccinated individuals, and hence the vaccine program was suspended (Schonberger et al., 1979). Further studies substantiated the association between the H1N1 vaccine and an increased relative risk (RR-7/1) for GBS 6 weeks after the vaccine (Safranek et al., 1991). The pathophysiology is unclear but may be related to vaccine induced anti-ganglioside antibodies (GM1) (Nachamkin et al., 2008).
Studies of influenza vaccines in the following years were not associated with a substantial increase in the rate of GBS (Lasky et al., 1998). Immunizing patients with a history of GBS requires caution.
An increased risk for GBS was found in Semple and SMB rabies vaccines. The vaccine most probably included brain protein that could cause cross reactive antibodies to the neural tissue and were discontinued. The current rabies vaccines are derived from chick embryo cells and are not associated with an increased rate of GBS (Hemachudha et al., 1988).
The vaccine against Neisseria meningitides is indicated for individuals aged 11-55 years old. The VAERS published a warning of a possible association between the Meningococcal Polisaccharide Diphteria Toxoid Conjugated Vaccine (MCV4) and GBS, because of 5 cases of GBS following the MCV4 vaccine, and later 12 additional cases were reported (CDC, 2005). Based on reports, statistical analysis did not show any significant increase in the rate of GBS occurring 6 weeks after the MCV4 vaccine compared to non-vaccinated population. However, it is recommended that individuals with a history of GBS should not be vaccinated with MCV4 unless they are in a high risk for meningococcal infection. In a mass meningococcal C conjugate vaccine (CMCV not MCV4) campaign in Quebec, Canada in 2001, 2 cases of GBS 8 weeks after the vaccine were identified among 1.5 million administered vaccinations, a rate expected in the healthy normal population (De Wals et al., 2008).
The FDA licensed the quadrivalent human papillomavirus (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/species-and-cell-types/virus/human-papillomavirus/) recombinant vaccine (qHPV) in the United States in June 2006 for use in females 9-26 years old. In a review of the adverse effects reported over two years to the VAERS (Slade et al., 2009), 12 of 42 cases reported as GBS were confirmed, 11 of them in the age 13-30 years old. Only eight of the confirmed cases were in the range of 4-42 days post vaccination. The relative risk in 9-26 year old females vaccinated with qHPV vaccine for GBS was low (Callreus et al., 2009).
Vaccine induced myopathies
The reports on vaccine induced inflammatory myopathies are sporadic and include cases following immunization with HBV, bacillus Calmette-Guérin, tetanus, influenza, smallpox (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/infectious-diseases/smallpox/), polio, diphtheria, or combinations with diphtheria (Orbach et al., 2009). There is no statistically significant increase in the incidence of polymyositis or dermatomyositis (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/dermatomyositis/) after any mass vaccination. Among 289 patients with inflammatory myopathies followed in the Mayo Clinic, no recent immunization was recorded (Winkelman, 1968; Winkelmann, 1982).
Macrophagic myofasciitis
Macrophagic myofasciitis is a reaction to intramuscular injections of vaccines containing aluminum hydroxide as an adjuvant and affects mainly adults. The symptoms are usually myalgia, arthralgia, asthenia and, less frequently, muscle weakness and fever, in the presence of elevated creatine kinase and erythrocyte sedimentation rates. The electromyogram has a unique pathologic pattern characterized mainly by focal infiltration of the epimysium, perimysium, and perifascicular endomysium by sheets of large, non-epithelioid macrophages, which show fine granular staining for periodic acid-Schiff (PAS) stain that appear as small, osmiophilic, spiky structures on electron microscopy (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/research-technology/microscopy/electron-microscopy/), representing the aluminum hydroxide crystals (Gherardi et al., 2001). Immunizations containing aluminum may trigger macrophagic myofasciitis in the context of an HLA (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/hla/)-DRB1*01 genetic background (Guis et al., 2002). Frequently, patients improve with steroid therapy.
Vasculitis
Numerous case reports reported a possible association between polyarteritis nodosa (PAN) and hepatitis B vaccination. Overall, 25 cases of PAN were submitted to VAERS over an 11 year period until 2001. Among them, only 10 individuals were diagnosed as definite or possible PAN and are discussed here. The median age of patients was 45 years old and 5 patients were hospitalized. A modal peak of 2 weeks and median of 2.8 weeks post-vaccination was noted. All cases received at least 2 doses of vaccine prior to symptom onset. Hepatitis B surface antigenemia frequently follows hepatitis B vaccination and is detected many days after the 20 microgram vaccine. This could explain related immune-complex disease. Recently, there were less than 20 reports on the development of vasculitis following influenza vaccination. Small, medium, and large vessels were involved (Begier et al., 2004). All in all, this would be considered a rare event.
Rheumatoid arthritis
A total of 48 out of 898 (5.3%) of patients with early inflammatory polyarthritis reported an immunization in the 5 weeks prior to symptom onset. There were no important clinical or demographic differences between the 48 immunized patients and 185 consecutive patients who did not report prior immunization. The frequencies of HLA DRB1 *01 and *04 and the shared epitope in 33 of the immunized patients were no different in the non-immunized patients compared to healthy controls. Possibly, in a small number of susceptible individuals, immunization may act as a trigger for RA (Harrison et al., 1997).
Seropositive HLA-DR4 (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/hla-dr4/)-positive RA was reported in a few case reports after hepatitis B vaccination. In a series of 11 patients who developed RA after hepatitis B vaccination, all individuals were healthy prior to vaccination and they developed persistent polyarthritis fulfilling the present American College of Rheumatology (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/) criteria for RA (Pope et al., 1998). Five subjects expressed HLA-DR4, and HLA class II genes with the RA shared motif were identified in nine of 11 patients. In a case-control epidemiological study, adults receiving hepatitis B vaccination had an odds ratio of 18 to develop RA (P<0.0001) (Geier et al., 2005). However, the available data suggests a benefit of the vaccine that outweighs the risk (Sibilia et al., 2002).
RA patients have almost a doubled risk level of developing an infection in comparison with age- and sex-matched subjects. In two randomized studies on RA patients, a good safety profile for the influenza vaccine without an increased rate of exacerbation was shown (Conti et al., 2008). Ninety nine adalimumab (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/rheumatoid-arthritis/adalimumab-rheumatoid-arthritis-rheumatology-medical-specialties/) treated patients had a less significant immune response than 99 placebo treated RA, but the difference was not statistically relevant (Kaine et al., 2007). Infliximab (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/rheumatoid-arthritis/infliximab/) and etanercept (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/rheumatoid-arthritis/etanercept/) did not influence the immunogenicity of influenza vaccine (Kubota et al., 2007). The effect of rituximab (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/oncology/lymphoma/non-hodgkins-lymphoma/rituximab-non-hodgkins-lymphoma-lymphoma-oncology-medical-specialties/) on the efficacy and immunogenicity of influenza vaccine was studied in 14 RA patients. During the 4-week follow-up after vaccination, there was no difference in disease activity in both groups of patients. In the rituximab (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/rituximab/) treated patients, the percentage of responders was low for all three antigens tested, achieving statistical significance for the California antigen (Oren et al., 2008).
The safety profile of pneumococcal vaccine was good without exacerbations of RA (Elkayam et al., 2002). In 5 studies on the immunogenicity of the pneumococcal vaccine in RA patients, elevated titers of antibodies occurred but the response was partial. In 11 RA patients treated with TNF (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/tnf/)-α blockers, the titer of the antibodies increased to a lower level compared to other disease modifying anti-rheumatic drugs (DMARDs (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/dmards/)) treated RA patients. In another study, methotrexate (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/rheumatoid-arthritis/methotrexate/) treated patients had an inferior increase in antibodies to the 23F and B6 serotypes when compared to patients treated by TNF-α blockers and healthy controls. In the ASPIRE trial, 70 RA patients with early disease were immunized by pneumococcal vaccine 34 weeks after initiating therapy. The percentage of patients with antibody response (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/antibody-response/) was similar in the three groups (infliximab at 2 different doses with methotrexate or methotrexate alone) (20-25% response). All treatment groups had a lower response to vaccine than would be expected in the normal population. Interestingly, the addition of infliximab to methotrexate therapy did not impair the immune response (Visvanathan et al., 2007).
Hepatitis B vaccination was safe in 22 RA patients compared to controls without any evidence of exacerbation of the disease and was effective in 68% of patients (Elkayam et al., 2002).
HPV vaccine (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/hpv-vaccine/) and autoimmune manifestations
The recently released vaccine for human papillomavirus (HPV (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/hpv/)) offers an opportunity to assess the development of autoimmune phenomena in a high risk population of young women. Hence, we chose to investigate and report separately on this vaccine.
Recently developed vaccines against human papillomavirus (HPV) and hepatitis B virus (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/species-and-cell-types/virus/hepatitis-b-virus/) (HBV) contain a novel Adjuvant System, AS04, which is composed of 3-O-desacyl-4′ monophosphoryl lipid A and aluminum salts. All randomized, controlled trials of HPV-16 (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/hpv-16/)/18, herpes simplex virus (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/species-and-cell-types/virus/herpes-simplex-virus/) (HSV (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/hsv/)), and HBV vaccines were analyzed in an integrated analysis of individual data (N = 68,512). A separate analysis of the HPV-16/18 vaccine trials alone was also undertaken (N = 39,160). The reported rates of overall autoimmune events were around 0.5% and did not differ between the AS04 and control groups. The relative risk (AS04/control) of experiencing any autoimmune event was 0.98 (95% confidence intervals 0.80, 1.21) in the integrated analysis and 0.92 (0.70, 1.22) in the HPV-16/18 vaccine analysis. This integrated analysis of over 68,000 participants who received AS04 adjuvant vaccines or controls demonstrated a low rate of autoimmune disorders, without evidence of an increase in relative risk associated with AS04 adjuvanted vaccines (Verstraeten et al., 2008).
In the Danish Civil Registration system, among approximately half a million adolescent girls, 414 autoimmune disorders were listed. The 5 most common autoimmune diseases occurring within 6 weeks of vaccination among 100,000 girls were: type I diabetes, juvenile arthritis, Crohn’s disease, Henoch-Schonlein disease, and ulcerative colitis (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/gastroenterology/ulcerative-colitis/) (Sutton et al., 2009). However, over a 10 year period, the common autoimmune diseases, from the most to the least common, were: type I diabetes, juvenile arthritis, Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, Basedow’s disease, Henoch-Schonlein purpura, psoriasis (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/psoriasis/), and SLE (Verstraeten et al., 2008).
Adverse events of potential autoimmune etiology for HPV 16/18, HBV, and genital HSV vaccine trials (n = 42) were evaluated in an integrated analysis of 68,512 individuals. Common to these 3 vaccines is their adjuvant, ASO4. A separate analysis of HPV 16/18 vaccine trials was performed in an integrated analysis of 39,160 individuals. The analysis included all completed or ongoing controlled randomized studies of the 3 vaccines conducted by GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals or collaborators. No independent sources on this subject were retrieved in a literature search. The control group received vaccines that were ASO4 free, non-adjuvanted, or adjuvanted with aluminum or aluminum hydroxide. To be included in the analysis, each individual received at least one dose of vaccine. The mean follow-up period was 1.8 years. These studies were not specifically set up to evaluate the development of autoimmune phenomena. A total of 362 participants reported at least one autoimmune event with an event rate of 0.52% in the vaccinated group which did not differ from the control group (0.54%). Hypothyroidism was the most common individual event, followed by unclassified musculoskeletal and neuroinflammatory disorders.
The overall relative risk for developing an autoimmune disease (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/category/medical-specialties/rheumatology/autoimmune-disease/) was 0.98, hence no direct statistically significant difference between the groups was encountered. However, when looking at each disease individually, the highest relative risk for an individual event was idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (RR-3.74), followed by SLE (RR-3.00). For organ specific disease, thyroid involvement was most commonly detected. For analysis of the entire database which included data for HBV and HSV vaccine as well, the highest relative risk for an individual event was for SLE (RR-2.39) (Verstraeten et al., 2008).
Discussion
Autoimmune diseases that are known to be infection induced and can be prevented by proper therapy in most cases include rheumatic fever and Lyme disease. A most probable causality occurred between exposure to swine flu vaccine (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/tag/flu-vaccine/) and the development of GBS. In addition, MMF occurred following exposure to aluminum containing adjuvant.Vaccines, like infections, activate immune mediated mechanisms to induce a protective effect. Hence, a complex vaccine may theoretically be more immunogenic than a simple vaccine. Vaccines harbor added complex agents, for example, adjuvants including aluminum, which may induce autoimmune disease. Preservatives are more often found in viral vaccines compared to bacterial vaccines suggesting that the preservatives may be the inciting culprits (Israeli et al., 2009).
Given the background incidence of autoimmune disorders in some of the groups targeted for immunization with these vaccines, it is likely that autoimmune events will be reported in temporal association with vaccination, even in the absence of a causal relationship.

Vaccines and Autoimmune Diseases of the Adult - Hedi Orbach - Discovery Medicine (http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Hedi-Orbach/2010/02/04/vaccines-and-autoimmune-diseases-of-the-adult/)



Here is the link...this is just one example:


http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/Moran.Fields%2012-3-10.pdf (http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/Moran.Fields%2012-3-10.pdf)





Here is another article by the Israeli Doc Yehuda Shoenfeld:


Post-Influenza Vaccination Vasculitides



http://journals.lww.com/jclinrheum/Citation/2009/09000/Post_Influenza_Vaccination_Vasculitides__A.1.aspx

[marta]

I'm so thrilled to hear that you're holding the pharmaceutical companies accountable. I think they get away with much more than they should. Iatrogenic mortality is the equivalent of a 747 jumbo jet full of passengers, crashing every day of the year and killing everyone on board. Imagine the money that went into looking for the missing Malaysia flight going into helping victims of iatrogenic morbidity and mortality. I know of several people who are now on the other side who passed from either doctor mistakes, or improper drug protocols. One we all know on this forum, another is a dear friend who lived here in Jasper and grew up with my husband and had no chronic illness, just got a bad drug combo prescribed from a local doc. I know a few more, and not one of those docs who made poor decisions were held accountable.

Many people will argue that most of the people dead from iatrogenic causes were already sick (therefore needing meds) so their chances of dying were increased. Vaccines however are a whole different animal altogether since they are all administered to healthy individuals as insurance against illness. Sometimes this backfires and the individual ends up being a bigger cost than what they would have been had they not got the vaccine and gotten the illness vaccinated against in the first place. Me for instance. Life would have been a lot easier had I got the H1N1 flu than getting Wegener's from the vaccine trigger. I believe that vaccines have in fact pulled us from the dark ages of medicine and understanding of infectious disease, I'm pro vaccines if they're done right and for the right reason (not just to make a poopload more money for the parent company.) The world of vaccine development however has changed so dramatically, and underdeveloped or slightly modified versions of previously failed vaccines are used to inoculate en-masse without any regard for long term side effects, or how they will react with the parts of the population that are genetically predisposed to autoimmune disease and all they need is a trigger to get their immune system into 'over-react' mode. The political system is set up to protect these companies as well. Canada is only one of two G8 countries where you can't hold pharmaceutical companies accountable for bad vaccine side effects (Russia is the other). I'm glad you live in a country where you can do something and hold those buggers accountable. Set precedent on this. Your action will start a ripple effect that can change the baloney. I'm totally rooting for you.

Here are a couple of articles I wrote about my experience and musing with vaccines (all old.) It's interesting how tied people are to their positions on vaccines, so I tend to avoid talking about it to avoid starting fights. It's interesting how people will completely disregard my experience and tell me it's not true to avoid having to consider their stand, but that's a whole different discussion, ha ha:

Weggies Unite: Oh how things can change (http://weggiesunite.blogspot.ca/2011/07/oh-how-things-can-change.html)
https://findthecommonthread.com/2014/04/05/measles-outbreak-and-what-we-should-really-be-talking-about/
https://findthecommonthread.com/2015/02/14/anti-vax-vs-pro-vax-vs-inteligentsia/

[Bing505z]

I'm so thrilled to hear that you're holding the pharmaceutical companies accountable. I think they get away with much more than they should. Iatrogenic mortality is the equivalent of a 747 jumbo jet full of passengers, crashing every day of the year and killing everyone on board. Imagine the money that went into looking for the missing Malaysia flight going into helping victims of iatrogenic morbidity and mortality. I know of several people who are now on the other side who passed from either doctor mistakes, or improper drug protocols. One we all know on this forum, another is a dear friend who lived here in Jasper and grew up with my husband and had no chronic illness, just got a bad drug combo prescribed from a local doc. I know a few more, and not one of those docs who made poor decisions were held accountable.

Many people will argue that most of the people dead from iatrogenic causes were already sick (therefore needing meds) so their chances of dying were increased. Vaccines however are a whole different animal altogether since they are all administered to healthy individuals as insurance against illness. Sometimes this backfires and the individual ends up being a bigger cost than what they would have been had they not got the vaccine and gotten the illness vaccinated against in the first place. Me for instance. Life would have been a lot easier had I got the H1N1 flu than getting Wegener's from the vaccine trigger. I believe that vaccines have in fact pulled us from the dark ages of medicine and understanding of infectious disease, I'm pro vaccines if they're done right and for the right reason (not just to make a poopload more money for the parent company.) The world of vaccine development however has changed so dramatically, and underdeveloped or slightly modified versions of previously failed vaccines are used to inoculate en-masse without any regard for long term side effects, or how they will react with the parts of the population that are genetically predisposed to autoimmune disease and all they need is a trigger to get their immune system into 'over-react' mode. The political system is set up to protect these companies as well. Canada is only one of two G8 countries where you can't hold pharmaceutical companies accountable for bad vaccine side effects (Russia is the other). I'm glad you live in a country where you can do something and hold those buggers accountable. Set precedent on this. Your action will start a ripple effect that can change the baloney. I'm totally rooting for you.

Here are a couple of articles I wrote about my experience and musing with vaccines (all old.) It's interesting how tied people are to their positions on vaccines, so I tend to avoid talking about it to avoid starting fights. It's interesting how people will completely disregard my experience and tell me it's not true to avoid having to consider their stand, but that's a whole different discussion, ha ha:

Weggies Unite: Oh how things can change (http://weggiesunite.blogspot.ca/2011/07/oh-how-things-can-change.html)
https://findthecommonthread.com/2014/04/05/measles-outbreak-and-what-we-should-really-be-talking-about/
https://findthecommonthread.com/2015/02/14/anti-vax-vs-pro-vax-vs-inteligentsia/


I agree with you and understand your position. Thanks so much for sharing these links, I am reading up. Yup, I know about that "whole different discussion" ....wink wink...Best wishes

[luan22]

OMG,Thank you everyone for sharing