What, me worry? [Archive] - Wegener's Granulomatosis Disease GPA Support Forum

vdub

10-25-2015, 02:34 PM

It’s always nice to know you have friends! I've been away from the forum for several weeks (months?) and I've received a few PM's asking if everything was ok. Thanks for the concern guys!

Everything is ok, given the obvious challenges we all have.

I have had a couple changes, though. I was taken off mtx mid-July in preparation for a complete knee replacement. The knee replacement was a success, but I did have an adrenal crisis after the surgery despite the doctors predicting and preparing for such an event.

This was my second adrenal crisis -- they aren't any fun and are quite painful, but easily resolved with an injection of a couple hundred mg's of steroids. Otherwise, the surgery was pretty uneventful and totally successful.

The bad part of the surgery was going off the mtx, which I've been on for the better part of 5 years. As most of you know, you can't be on mtx when you are going in for surgery. Since I was going to be off the mtx, my rheumy wanted to see if I could stay off without having a flare. It didn't work out. I didn't have a wegs flare, but I did have a psoriatic arthritis flare. At least, we think that's what flared. Lots of joint and muscle pain, sleeping many hours beyond normal -- sometimes sleeping for 16 hrs only to wake up, get something to eat, and go back to bed. This was happening even when on pred -- pretty weird.

Part of the sleeping might have been due to the pain meds I'm on. Both the hydrocodone and gabapentin have been increased, but a lot of my hormones seem to off, too. The blood tests all come out "mostly" ok, but I'm on so many replacement hormones that it’s difficult to tell if one isn't quite up to speed. And, as most of you know, it takes weeks for some of our drugs to "work" or "not work", so it’s not something you can easily identify. I'm currently on 18 different drugs a day, so isolating one that might be a problem is really hard.

So that's about it -- really, really tired. But, I seem to be coming out of it. I still have a lot of joint pain, but I have now replaced the hydrocodone with tramadol and I'm sloooowly decreasing the pred, but won't go below 7.5. And, of course, I'm back on mtx (20 mg). I took a gamble that I was on the up-swing of this round and we loaded up the RV about a week ago to head south for part of the winter. I am continuing to get better and having a little more energy, but still going pretty slow. We are currently in Las Vegas, but we aren't partying. :-)

Thanks again for your concern!

drz

10-25-2015, 03:33 PM

Thanks for the update. Where were you for the surgery? And your plans now for recovery location? Vegas?

Pete

10-25-2015, 03:35 PM

Glad to hear you're on the mend. Hope it continues. Be well...

annekat

10-25-2015, 03:49 PM

Good to hear from you, vdub.... I had wondered a bit. Sounds like you've been through a lot of stuff, but are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Knee replacements are so common these days, it's good for us to know in advance what could happen when going off our meds to get one. Hoping you manage to get to some partying in your RV eventually.

Alysia

10-25-2015, 04:19 PM

vdub

10-25-2015, 05:52 PM

Where were you for the surgery? And your plans now for recovery location? Vegas?
Knee replacements seem pretty routine anymore, so are done everywhere. Mine was done in Lewiston, ID. Everyone is different with respect to pain tolerance, but the pain from my knee surgery was minimal. I left the hospital using a walker, but only because they insisted. Once I got home, I used a cane for a couple days, but then was walking normal. I drove myself to my first PT session. On the second PT session I had already hit their "graduation goals" -- they wanted rotation of 0 to 130 and I was doing 0 to 142. The adrenal crisis was a whole nother eye-watering experience, but only lasted about 3 hrs until the doc decided what it was and injected soluble steroids, which gave pretty much instant relieve. So, as far as the knee goes, I'm pretty much recovered. Now I just have to wait for the AI drugs to start working.

My worst "pain point" for the past few weeks has been my right shoulder and arm. My rheumy thinks it is PA and emanating from my spine. I'll bet my new rheumy has taken 100 xrays in order to establish a base line. The knee surgeon said I definitely had some steroid damage on the joint.

mishb

10-25-2015, 06:16 PM

Great to see you have been having a load of fun vdub :razz: and sounds like you have a few more fun times ahead.

Clearly you are getting better again, just in time for the annual RV winter escape. I hope partying in Vegas, and travelling becomes easier in the next few weeks

woz

10-25-2015, 10:22 PM

Good to her from you Vdub, hope the new parts get you out in that nice red car more often.

Regards Woz...

annekat

10-26-2015, 02:36 AM

Thanks for the update. I was worried. But seems that you are tough as nails (this is how you say it in English?l) and handled it all so well.
Your psoriasis needs the dead sea when and if you will be able to make the trip, be my guest. If there are any products of the dead sea that can help you, please let me know and if I will find them here, I will send them to you.
Sending my prayers and love ♡ Yes, tough as nails is how we say it in English, Alysia. You mention Dead Sea products. I have found that Dead Sea Salt to use in the bath and soaps containing it are available here, either online or in special stores. I was looking for our friend Jacquie (Booknut), who may be allergic to epsom salts, which most common bath salts are made of. But of course, better yet would be if vdub could visit you and soak in the Dead Sea itself, for its life giving benefits!

vdub

10-26-2015, 04:33 AM

Good to her from you Vdub, hope the new parts get you out in that nice red car more often.
I can't remember if I ever posted a pic of my car or not.... This it on the hill above the valley we live in.

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pwc51

10-26-2015, 04:46 AM

A real car!!!

Debbie C

10-26-2015, 05:16 AM

Good to hear from you vdub, glad to hear you are doing so well with your knee in such a short period of time. You need to take extra steroids with you when you get anything done so when you have these adrenal crisis you can just pop some steroids and not wait for the dr.Hope you start to feeling better so you can go belly up to the poker table and win US some bucks !!! Safe travels .

vdub

10-26-2015, 06:05 AM

You need to take extra steroids
You're right, Deb! I have always traveled with solucortef and needles, but I've never viewed it as something I needed "at arm's length". My new rheumy has changed that thinking, though. He said my adrenal crisis' will probably become more frequent and that they can be triggered by any form of trauma; either mental or physical. So, I have now made kits with injectable steroids and I have a kit for each car and for the suitcase that I normally take when traveling.

When I had my first adrenal crisis, my wife was the one who noticed the symptoms and went back to our state room to get the solucortef and bring it to the ship's doctor. After going through two episodes now, I think I'll be able recognize the onset of a crisis and give myself the shots.

I have always wondered how much of a sense of humor cops would have if I was ever stopped and they found hydrocodone, hgh, steroids, needles, etc in my car. The drugs get so split up among different containers that having a script on every container would be quite impossible. I can only hope the cops would put a little thought into their actions and recognize that I don't exactly fit the profile for a drug user, abuser, or pusher. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of instances where common sense has been totally abandoned.

drz

10-26-2015, 08:57 AM

Is there any need to worry about temperature for storage for these drugs. I think all you need for a script is one letter listing them all and to keep it on you with some extra back up copies for wife, cars, on your cell phone if possible as a document etc.

I have wondered what would happen if cops stopped me and asked me to walk a straight line since I can't do that under best of circumstances. But my driver's license says diabetic so figure they might cut me some slack and take me to a hospital if I looked too impaired.

So far my needles have not warranted any extra attention from security when traveling after they learn I have diabetes.

You're right, Deb! I have always traveled with solucortef and needles, but I've never viewed it as something I needed "at arm's length". My new rheumy has changed that thinking, though. He said my adrenal crisis' will probably become more frequent and that they can be triggered by any form of trauma; either mental or physical. So, I have now made kits with injectable steroids and I have a kit for each car and for the suitcase that I normally take when traveling.

When I had my first adrenal crisis, my wife was the one who noticed the symptoms and went back to our state room to get the solucortef and bring it to the ship's doctor. After going through two episodes now, I think I'll be able recognize the onset of a crisis and give myself the shots.

I have always wondered how much of a sense of humor cops would have if I was ever stopped and they found hydrocodone, hgh, steroids, needles, etc in my car. The drugs get so split up among different containers that having a script on every container would be quite impossible. I can only hope the cops would put a little thought into their actions and recognize that I don't exactly fit the profile for a drug user, abuser, or pusher. Unfortunately, there's been a lot of instances where common sense has been totally abandoned.

vdub

10-26-2015, 02:33 PM

A real car!!!
Yes, a real car! I love that car.... Would you believe I bought it in 1971 and I've had it all these years? About 2 months after buying it, I got my draft notice, so I put the car in storage and enlisted. I never thought I'd be in the military for a career. The car was in storage from Jan1972 to Mar2013, when I finally retired from everything. I've spent the last couple years replacing all the rubber bits and pieces that deteriorated.

pwc51

10-26-2015, 06:49 PM

Wow - fancy being able to keep your hands off it all that time! No wonder it looks so good. What a great project to keep your mind off this awful condition.

vdub

10-26-2015, 07:22 PM

It has been a lot of fun and it did keep my mind off the wegs problems. Unfortunately, wegs has caused the progress on the project to be extremely slow and, at times, difficult. Just having enough energy to tackle simple projects has been hard.

I didn't really have a place to work on it, so I had a small cabin built and put double doors in the back. I had the cabin hauled to the empty lot next to my house and it became my shop. It has worked out real well.

I have been having so much fun working on the A and I saw a poor little '67 MGB GT rotting away on a street corner. I tracked down the owner to see if I could buy it and he gave it to me for next to nothing. So now I have a follow-on project..... My wife is soooo excited! That's sarcasm, son, sarcasm....

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Debbie C

10-26-2015, 11:19 PM

vdub,what brings on your adrenal crisis and why are you going to have them more often ? I just thought it was from lowering the preds to soon.....is it from your thyroid issue ? Anyway ...sorry to hear this.

Nice new home for you car(s) ! Is the green 1 the one you just got ? Take care
Ha Ha , I can see you sitting in jail from steroid use !!!

vdub

10-27-2015, 03:49 AM

I just thought it was from lowering the preds to soon....
For most people, that is the case. Your adrenal gland controls the amount of cortisol your body needs. When you are given steroids (cortisol), your adrenal gland thinks you have as much cortisol as you need, so it quits making cortisol. When you come off the steroids, you do a taper so that your adrenal gland has time to "wake up" and start producing cortisol again.

Now switch to the pituitary gland.... The pit is called the "master gland" because it controls many of the other glands in your body (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituitary_gland). One of the glands it controls is the adrenal gland, the one that secrets cortisol, aka steroids. Since I don't have a pituitary gland, my adrenal gland is effectively dead and non-functioning. I am on replacement steroids all the time. I take hydrocortisone as the replacement steroid. Hydrocortisone and pred are essentially the same thing, but it different strengths. (strength table (http://www.globalrph.com/corticocalc.htm))

The pred I take is above and beyond the replacement "keep alive" steroid. The pred is used as a treatment steroid for the wegs. In theory, I should never have to taper off pred as most other people have to taper. The reason is because I'm on external replacement steroids all the time and I don't have a "wake up" issue with my adrenal gland.

One of the things that your normal adrenal gland does for you is provide bursts of cortisol whenever you are under stress; either mental or physical. Without the burst of cortisol, you would go into an adrenal crisis. The burst can be quite large -- maybe as much as 200mg or more and for a sustained amount of time.

So anyway, I don't have a pituitary to control the adrenal to give me the burst of cortisol I need in a trauma situation and the result is an adrenal crisis. Why will they become more frequent? I didn't ask the doctor that question, but if I had to guess, I'd say age.

You mention going to jail... I worry about that at times and have to be careful. I carry 3 drugs with me that are controlled substances; hydrocodone, tramadol, and human growth hormone (http://www.hghwatch.com/whatisthelaw.html). The hGH has to be injected, so it has needles, too. It is the drug that would be least understood by a cop and probably the one most likely to send me to jail for a short visit. Colorado is really tough on hGh possession -- I'm guessing because our Olympic training camp is in CO Springs, but, otherwise, I don't know why.

annekat

10-27-2015, 06:26 AM

Excellent summary of how pred and the adrenal glands work, vdub. I'm wondering, though, how do our shut-down adrenals deal with stress situations when they'd normally be able to produce a large "burst" of cortisone, perhaps up to 200mg, in these cases? It seems we'd be pretty much out of luck, unless the amount of pred we are taking is enough to handle these situations.

vdub

10-27-2015, 08:09 AM

The 200mg i was given was solucortef, which is injectable cortef, aka, hydrocortisone. If you look at the potency chart, you'll see that hydro is about a quarter the strength of pred, ie., 200mg of solucortef would be equal to about 50mg pred. So, in some cases you would be covered.

But that's an excellent question that I've never considered. I don't know what would happen if you were on, say, 15 or 20 mg pred, you're adrenals were running on idle, and you got in a bad car accident with a lot of trauma. There must be some way that your adrenals would kick in when an emergency arises or our doctors would be telling us to wear a medical bracelet or something.

I do have to wear a bracelet that "pan hypophyisitis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoimmune_hypophysitis)" on the front and "steroid dependant" on the back. I've ridden in several ambulances and your typical ambulance guy has no clue what it means.

annekat

10-27-2015, 09:39 AM

Ha, ha, count on me to come up with excellent, tricky questions. I figure, you are right, we must be OK in those situations or the docs would have said something. But it sort of points out why we have so much trouble tapering at the low doses when the adrenals have shut down. Any little stress, less than a car accident but more like a flat tire, or any ordinary problems we might encounter every day, might leave our adrenals wanting to pump out a bit more to deal with it. So however we deal with stress, it is at the expense of something else, like our muscles or joints or whatever is being kept on an even keel by the pred we are taking.

Birdie

10-27-2015, 02:42 PM

drz

10-27-2015, 10:37 PM

So with all this talk about adrenal vs prednisone, can anyone interpret the results of my adrenal test?

CORTICOTROPIN @ 9:35 am injection
CORTISOL 4.6 ug/dl @ 9:35 blood draw
CORTISOL 14.8 ug/dl @ 10:05 blood draw
CORTISOL 16.8 ug/dl @ 10:35 blood draw

Looks to me like my adrenal system is working, maybe quite well. I'll probably never get a doctor's feedback on the test.

Why not? Have you asked them what it means?

Birdie

10-28-2015, 01:54 AM

Why not? Have you asked them what it means?

It's the Veterans Administration. There is no way of asking. The patient is not a part of the system. They just order tests, the lab calls to make an appointment but knows nothing, can't answer questions. Call the office, nobody answers, leave a message, nobody returns the call. Continue that routine as often as you wish, every day for weeks if you like.

My next doctors appointment is tomorrow afternoon. I say appointment, that means the rheumatologist is supposed to call me on the phone. I don't get much time and have more important things to try getting answered. I will ask about the tests they've done in the last two months, if I get that much time.

I asked here, with all that in mind and in the midst of adrenal discussion, hoping someone might share their insight before I talk to a doctor on the phone.

annekat

10-28-2015, 03:24 AM

I wish I could interpret the numbers, Gary. From the point of view of someone who knows nothing, they look good. Obviously something happened after they gave you the injection. There must be someone on here with some insight, it's just a matter of time before they see this. I sort of assume your rheumy would have been sent a copy of the test results, which should make it easy for him to just glance at them and have a meaningful response. Good luck with the phone call, and I hope you can work that in.

vdub

10-28-2015, 02:16 PM

Can't help you with the numbers -- mine have always been zero.....

Birdie

10-28-2015, 02:36 PM

Can't help you with the numbers -- mine have always been zero.....

With that experience I was hoping you'd have some insight. Oh well.

Internet research leaves me a bit unsure, but only a bit and only because the nomenclature is different between the lab and google results. There should be about a three fold increase in cortisol which is what I produced.

Next up is the result of the electrocution test. Stick needles in, apply voltage, measure response. That was fun.

vdub

10-28-2015, 03:30 PM

Short answer above -- I was watching an old episode of Midsomer Murders on youtube -- most excellent tv. :-)

The only tests they ever ran on me was for FSH, ATCH, etc. Those are the hormones produced by the pit which trigger the glands to do their job. The pit "generally" controls all of the endocrine system, i.e., all the hormones contained within the body and not external to the body. But, you can read all of that on wiki (clicky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituitary_gland)).

I have been reading about my own situation for over 5 years and learned quite a bit, but I'm still finding things I didn't know. In the wiki article above I saw this in the 2nd paragraph:

"Hormones secreted from the pituitary gland help control: growth, blood pressure, certain functions of the sex organs, thyroid glands and metabolism as well as some aspects of pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, water/salt concentration and the kidneys, temperature regulation and pain relief."

I've probably read that article a dozen times, but this is the first time I've noticed that the pit had anything to do with pain relief. That still doesn't have anything to do with you, but I'm on a lot of pain meds and I'm now curious if my hypo-pit condition has anything to do with that.

But on to your cortisol (given I'm not a doctor).... It looks like the key to your test was the corticotropin injection and what you wanted to see after the injection was a rise in cortisol production, which you do see. This is a good article on it -- clicky (http://pituitary.mgh.harvard.edu/E-F-942.HTM). If those were my results and I was reading the article, I'd think more in line with good news -- that is, the cortisol production goes up rapidly as you would expect. I'll retract the part in light gray. After re-reading the article, its way to complex for me.

But something would concern me... Why are they giving you CRH, which is a step above the adrenal gland. CRH acts on the pit to trigger it to send ACTH down line to the adrenal which in turn produces the cortisol. Where they testing the pit or the adrenal? I sure hope it wasn't a pit test -- you don't even want to think about having a bad pit -- really a hassle. What led them to this test?

BTW, I've had fairly good luck with the VA, but I'm at a smaller clinic than you (WallaWalla), so its more personal and less number-driven. I've always had good luck getting info from the nurses.

drz

10-28-2015, 04:22 PM

[QUOTE=vdub;100895]Your adrenal gland controls the amount of cortisol your body needs.[QUOTE]

So with all this talk about adrenal vs prednisone, can anyone interpret the results of my adrenal test?

CORTICOTROPIN @ 9:35 am injection
CORTISOL 4.6 ug/dl @ 9:35 blood draw
CORTISOL 14.8 ug/dl @ 10:05 blood draw
CORTISOL 16.8 ug/dl @ 10:35 blood draw

Looks to me like my adrenal system is working, maybe quite well. I'll probably never get a doctor's feedback on the test.

This suggests: Normal subjects experience a rapid rise in ACTH and cortisol, with a gradual decline over the subsequent two hours. from the web site vdub posted.

Interpretation

Responses to CRH are quite variable both within and between individuals. In normal individuals plasma ACTH rises by 400% (mean) at 10-30 min post-CRH. and serum cortisol by 250% (mean) with a peak at 30-60 min post-CRH. This suggests again the results are normal.

Why only the cortisol and not any ACTH levels?

I remember using a web site a few years back that explained various lab tests and what the results might indicate. The above results only contain cortisol levels.

certain inflammatory markers such as CRP and other stress hormones, including cortisol.8-11 Free fatty acids, which are released from increased visceral or abdominal adipose tissue, also play a role in heightening levels of CRP.11-14 Elevated levels of cortisol are also linked to increased adiposity and subsequently increased inflammation, Cortisol and CRP seem related but i would be interested in why they ordered the test in the first place. My guess would be it was done to rule out something or look for other possible problems.

It must be very frustrating not to have good access to someone familiar with your case to explain their information and assessments.

Birdie

10-28-2015, 04:58 PM

Why are they giving you CRH, which is a step above the adrenal gland.

Ahhh, questions. Lots O' questions, can't get answers. I have finally been assigned a PCP who takes appointments. Never saw the last one, it took months just to find out it was a woman (not that I care).

CRH acts on the pit to trigger it to send ACTH down line to the adrenal which in turn produces the cortisol. Where they testing the pit or the adrenal?

I think/guess the test was intended to find out if the entire system is functioning, or capable of functioning. The goal is to get me out of this wheelchair, at least some of the time.

BTW, I've had fairly good luck with the VA, but I'm at a smaller clinic than you (WallaWalla), so its more personal and less number-driven. I've always had good luck getting info from the nurses.

When I can get to the medical side of this place... they're fantastic, except for my rheumatologist. She's probably good but seems to know nothing about Wegeners, and doesn't even seem to understand how difficult it can be.

The back of my wheelchair now sports the following sign when at the VA:

Congratulations VA Administrative personnel!
You have reached your goal in only six months!
You have proven 50% of you don't suck!

It goes well with the big billboard across the street:

The VA is lying
Veterans are dying

That's what you see from the administrators office window on the sixth floor. Phx VA is at the center of all that you see on the news.

Jaha

10-29-2015, 10:12 AM

vdub,
I am so glad that you are able to travel after your events of the last 6mos. It sounds like all went well with the knee replacement. It is really great that you have such a good attitude with all that you have to deal with. You guys are blowing my mind with the discussions on the adrenalin #'s. It is all so complicated and my Rheumy has never even let me know what to look for if I would have a crisis. Thank you for your explanations on the subject and the update on your condition. Wishing you all the best and have a great road trip.

marta

10-31-2015, 04:07 AM

Enjoy Vegas vdub, and stay focused on the good stuff.

I'm sorry you're going through this crappy time, but as we all know, this too shall pass. You've seen and dealt with worse, so this is just a hiccup in your life line. I know that if anyone can overcome and 'stick it' to the disease, it's you.

Stay strong and happy and this will be a memory.

Big big hugs.
m

vdub

11-03-2015, 05:04 AM

Enjoy Vegas vdubI am enjoying Vegas! I have a wonderful view of the city from my 3rd floor hospital room.

I was initially admitted for a breathing problem. They still haven't figured out the cause. But they have found a couple of unrelated issues.

The endocrine system has 10 glands. I have now lost the function of 9 of those. Last night they told me my pancreas was going south. This isn't even the problem I came to the hospital for. The only functioning endocrine gland left is the pineal.

I have been watching my A1c waiver to the high side for the past 2 years, so I wasn't surprised when they came into the room with an insulin injection and told me I had diabetes 2. Here in the hospital, I'll be on injections. I'm not sure what they'll send me home with -- could be pills.

But..... still no answers on the breathing problem. More tests today.

marta

11-03-2015, 05:43 AM

Oh man!

That is not at all what I meant when I wished you an enjoyable Las Vegas trip. Not even close.

BUT, if there's anyone who can take that load and deal with it in a 'league of extraordinary gentlemen' way, it is you. It's a big load. But you're a big man (and I don't mean it in a pred sort of way.)

Take care buddy. Stay strong as always, and heal fast. You're an old pro at that part of the equation.

Big hugs from up north.

marta

annekat

11-03-2015, 05:46 AM

Sorry to hear all this, vdub. As usual, you are maintaining a calmness of attitude, accepting things as they are, and keeping a clear understanding of what is going on in your body. I hope they send you home with pills and not injections, but if it's injections, you'll handle it just fine. I hope they figure out the breathing issue and can help you with that, too! It would be nice if you could enjoy a little RV-ing before you head home. In the meantime, continue to enjoy the view!

Pete

11-03-2015, 06:00 AM

Vdub, that's a pretty rotten vacation!! Reminds me of the week I spent in OSU Hospital with a nice view of Ohio Stadium in January...

Alysia

11-03-2015, 07:42 AM

Hang in there vdub... I love your fighting spirit.. what problem do you have with your breathing ? Sending my prayers and love. Please update us.

Debbie C

11-03-2015, 11:21 AM

vdub all I can say is :wtf: That's not the view I was expecting you to say. I'd ask them to work on your breathing before they find something else.Take care and stay strong. Please keep us updated. Hugs

Jaha

11-03-2015, 02:33 PM

I am so sorry that you ran into another road block. I hope they will treat you right in Vegas, and get to the bottom of the mysteries. Wishing you all the best and that you get out of there soon feeling much better. Please take of yourself.

vdub

11-04-2015, 04:58 AM

They released me from the hospital yesterday and in the process they have changed their mind on the diabetes dx. You wouldn't believe how many docs are involved with this -- I think 7.

Anyway, they say its not diabetes, but is hyperglycima most likely caused by the pred. So they are giving me a pill to take.

They still dont know about the breathing. My capacity is definitely reduced from the diaphram being too high, but its not paralyzed and the liver is normal, so they are at a loss. I have follow up in a couple weeks.

I'm getting excellent care from the military. After being retired for 21 years, being in a military hospital again felt like going home. I loved my career in the mil. Almost all the nurses were young LT's and were all so nice. It seems the nurse career field attracts the nicest, most capable people available. They're just great people.

The docs are nice, too. All seem to be very young. I suppose its because the mil paid for their education and they have a commitment for a few years, so they are fresh out of med school. They seemed very interested in my diseases.

annekat

11-04-2015, 05:13 AM

I'm glad to hear you are out, things aren't quite as bad as they sounded, and you can drive off in your RV or stick around Vegas, whatever. I know you'll keep an eye on the breathing thing and won't get too far from a medical facility. Enjoy as much as you can!

Debbie C

11-04-2015, 05:30 AM

vdub...so glad to hear you have been released :thumbsup: So now you have what 28 pills to take? How is the breathing now ?Could you have possibly strained your chest muscles ? Im asking cuz that is what I am going through now. Too many leaves to blow and now I can't breath. Then I got a call from CC wanting me to repeat my bloodwork from last week because my #'s weren't great.Always something huh?? Let us know how the rest of your trip and you go....Take care

mishb

11-04-2015, 09:10 PM

I'm glad to hear that they let you out vdub. Vegas is definitely not the place to be spending the entire time in hospital :thumbdn:

I hope the breathing comes good for you, and Deb I hope everything gets back to normal for you to.

No more hospital visits - okay

Take it easy, both of you

vdub

11-05-2015, 04:25 AM

So now you have what 28 pills to take?
Depends on how you want to count the pills -- number of unique drugs or number of pills given you take multiple pills of some of the drugs. I count unique drugs. I used to be at 21, then dropped to 18, and now I'm up to 20. If I counted number of pills (given multiple for some drugs), it might be 28 or 30, but I've never counted -- its quite a few, tho. And, then there's always the 2 injections (B-12 and hGH) and the one gel (testosterone) -- I count each of those as a unique drug and part of my 20.

Birdie

11-05-2015, 07:26 AM

Depends on how you want to count the pills -- number of unique drugs or number of pills given you take multiple pills of some of the drugs. I count unique drugs. I used to be at 21, then dropped to 18, and now I'm up to 20. If I counted number of pills (given multiple for some drugs), it might be 28 or 30, but I've never counted -- its quite a few, tho. And, then there's always the 2 injections (B-12 and hGH) and the one gel (testosterone) -- I count each of those as a unique drug and part of my 20.

WOW vdub, my highest was 18 and I'm at 3 now.

I put all 18 of them on the kitchen counter and took a picture, send it to my manager, got instant acknowledgement of my issue. His reply contained words I can't say here. Just maybe... that's how you get people to understand, show em a picture of your meds.