Wegener's in a dog... seriously

[annekat]

This almost sounds like a joke... but apparently not. Good news is the dog was treated with immunosuppressants, his symptoms improved, and he went into remission. If only we all had docs as good as his!

Diagnosis and management of Wegener's granulomatosis in a dog. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=wegener%27s+dog)

[renidrag]

Maybe we should get a visit with the diagnosing Vet?
Dale

[Barry Forshaw]

Haha! If the vet was anything like Supervet (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-supervet), we'd have Wegener's licked in no time!

[mrtmeo]

Vets are the best because they have to be every dr in one, a surgeon, pharmacist, specialist of every organ, immunologist, etc and they don't get to use the best test equipment like drs have available for human diagnosis.

[annekat]

Vets are the best because they have to every dr in one, a surgeon, pharmacist, specialist of every organ, immunologist, etc and they don't get to use the best test equipment like drs have available for human diagnosis. Good point! And for what they charge these days, they had better be good! I know there is pet health insurance available, but I've looked into it, and it takes a bite out the budget of a low income person, who either must pay a high monthly premium, a hefty deductible, or the full cost of the visit.

[me2]

I have considered pet health insurance. I was unable to find a provider who could decide what breed I am.

[mishb]

I know that german shephards can get vasculitis.

A man that used to work with me had a cat with vasculitis and the cat and I were on the same drugs.
It cost him $350 a month for pred and MTX for his cat and it lived for just over two years.
Yes, he certainly does love his cats.

[annekat]

Even if animals can get vasculitis, which I would never have doubted, it seems strange for them to specifically diagnose it as Wegener's in this dog. But I guess the symptoms and biopsy results must have been more like WG than any other vasculitis. I wonder if they are keeping the dog on maintenance drugs and testing his blood regularly for flares or kidney involvement like they do us.

[me2]

I know that german shephards can get vasculitis.

I am of German descent, and I sometimes bark at cars. Thanks for the suggestion Michelle.

[annekat]

Ohhhh, Kirk...... :rolleyes1:

I wonder if other dogs tell the dog he doesn't look sick?

[Alysia]

I bet the vet is way better then some of our docs, for sure better then the docs at Foothills Medical Center, Calgary, damn hospital....
Phil's sister has a cat who suffers from diabetes and getting insulin shots every day. it costs them about 10,000 $ a month. I attach the pic of Phil and that cat to Phil's thread.

[annekat]

I bet the vet is way better then some of our docs, for sure better then the docs at Foothills Medical Center, Calgary, damn hospital....
Phil's sister has a cat who suffers from diabetes and getting insulin shots every day. it costs them about 10,000 $ a month. I attach the pic of Phil and that cat to Phil's thread. Wow, that would be a cat I could not keep and would have to have put down. I cannot imagine where anyone gets $10,000 a month, period, whether to spend on a cat or on living expenses.

[mishb]

Oh my goodness that is a lot of money.
I know people who have to give insulin shots to their cats and it doesn't cost very much at all over here.

I'm with you Anne.
How does anyone even make that much money each month :huh:

[vdub]

I have an uncle who is a vet and his son is a dr. They both agree it is better to be a vet because the cat or dog doesn't lie or exaggerate when they answer a question and they don't read the internet and arrive with a self-diagnosis. Dogs and cats let the doc come to a conclusion through tests and science and not speculation from the patient. Its a good way to work things.

I worked for my uncle during summers when I was in high school and he was very good. He was in partnership with another vet and they built a surgery hospital complete with the most modern xray machines on the market, had their own blood lab, and had an excellent surgical unit. I got to help with an open-heart surgery once. They only worked on cats and dogs (but not pit bulls). They made a few exceptions though. I remember one time a little kid brought in a nearly dead frog. They patched him up and sent the kid on his way -- no charge.

If you think about how much good info a patient gives a doctor, its probably not all that much. They can tell you about pain, of course, but what the doc sees in your eyes, on your tongue, in your throat, on your skin, and what he feels (swollen lymphnodes for example) and the blood tests, probably account for 95% of the dx. I only saw my uncle stumped on a dx once, but it wasn't because the patient couldn't talk. The illness just didn't fit anything. Yes, vets are cool.....

[annekat]

That's interesting, vdub.... your uncle sounds like a great guy, to patch up a frog for a little kid. My local neighborhood vet used to be like that, very kind hearted, and would give people breaks and make exceptions, but his business has expanded over the last 20 years to where he has several vet hospitals and several vets working for him at each one. And he's built his empire to include strip malls and other non-veterinary businesses.... quite the entrepreneur. Now, his vet clinics charge an arm and a leg for their services, and are pretty adamant about getting the money up front. I rarely take my cats to the vet but don't know if I can take them there anymore if something comes up. Just one example, though... and I'm sure he's still a nice guy and a good vet, if he can even be found. Sort of sad to lose the personal touch that used to be there with him.

I see your point of view about docs, but my experience is that they don't spend enough time with the patient, asking the right questions or looking at all the areas you mention, and will just hustle you out the door unless you can work in a question or two or present something really dramatic. With the really good WG or vasculitis docs, it is probably different. But I think in general, vets spend more time trying to figure out what is wrong with an animal because they don't expect them to be hypochondriacs or imagining their symptoms, and that they won't be interrupted by a lot of self-dx-ing or other babble (as they may see it) and feel more able and willing to really focus on the patient. But I don't think I can just stand there and say nothing, as an animal would, and expect a doc to figure out what is going on with me. Every vet, doc, patient, and situation is a little different, though........

[mrtmeo]

I have an uncle who is a vet and his son is a dr. They both agree it is better to be a vet because the cat or dog doesn't lie or exaggerate when they answer a question and they don't read the internet and arrive with a self-diagnosis. Dogs and cats let the doc come to a conclusion through tests and science and not speculation from the patient. Its a good way to work things.

If you think about how much good info a patient gives a doctor, its probably not all that much. They can tell you about pain, of course, but what the doc sees in your eyes, on your tongue, in your throat, on your skin, and what he feels (swollen lymphnodes for example) and the blood tests, probably account for 95% of the dx. I only saw my uncle stumped on a dx once, but it wasn't because the patient couldn't talk. The illness just didn't fit anything. Yes, vets are cool.....

I have to disagree with this.
Had I not told her dr that she was p-anca positive (even tho it was on her chart) and possible MPA, she would probably not be alive.
They were going to send her home with failing kidneys.

If it were not for the details of a patient's symptoms, drs would not know which tests to take.
Most pets are put down or die due to lack of proper dx and lack of funds for more tests.
Drs are not mind readers and tests are not always conclusive.

Even with patients' symptoms explained over and over with dr after dr, folks are not diagnosed.
Patient knowledge is key to getting appropriate care.
Those patients that push to find the right dr are the ones that can find the right care.

[Alysia]

Wow, that would be a cat I could not keep and would have to have put down. I cannot imagine where anyone gets $10,000 a month, period, whether to spend on a cat or on living expenses.
his sister is married to a millionaire so she can afford it. lucky cat.

[annekat]

his sister is married to a millionaire so she can afford it. lucky cat. That's good, but I don't see why it should be that expensive just to inject insulin, as Michelle says it isn't in her country. Maybe they are taking the cat in to have it done instead of doing it themselves, which would add to the cost. Or things are different in Canada somehow.... who knows.

[Tom]

FWIW, when I was dx'd and was given some information overload, I recall there being some science in the info that vasculitus has been found in some dogs!
The post was intriguing and I had to share some of the info given to me!
I recall some of the things I was told because I remember thinking that I have a dogs disease and my wife was going to take me to the vet to have me put down because after all, we were debating about when or if to put down our old Jack Russell! The wife would look at me and tell me how much she loved that dog and then tell me we couldn't afford meds for both of us, then she would look at the dog and then me and tell me again how much she loves that dog!
My choice was simple! Hers, not so easy! I was afraid her next question to me was going to be "Can you drive yourself to the Vet?" Needless to say, I took the beloved Jack Russel to the vet!

[vdub]

Now that's a good story! And, well told, too.... they don't have room for 2 thumbs up! :-)

[debra]

This thread rocks!!! Someone please give me the name of the diagnosing vet!!! I'll fly there!!! Vets actually can help, cause just as the poster said, they have to be everything in one... I know a woman diagnosed with cancer, yes, through her vet! I love the comment, getting this licked, and Anne's, comment, a bite out of the budget! Just classic... It is the weg dog after all! Please, anyone have a good vet? Classic thread... Deb...

[debra]

Toms, post another classic! Oh, man, so classic! Anne, I should have known, you would be the original author here! Just beautiful, really beautiful... Deb...

[crowneagle]

I heard they have to have a higher GPA than human doctor to get into veterinary school. Tufts Veterinary school is close by to me.

[debra]

Mr. C, long time no see... Yes that rhymed... Hope you're good. Wow, tufts I spent a lot of time there, years back, trying to save my ferret I had at the time. They did a blood transfusion there, using my other ferret! I had two at the time, and one trying to save the other was pretty amazing... Worked inthe first couple days, but lost him. Wow, when I think of the ends I went to, to save my pets! But since I was healthy energy, wasn't an issue! And the bills, oh wow! But I'd do it all over again, as I love animals... I believe my last little guy, passed from wegeners, without any question. Got sick, with me, but his tiny body, couldn't last. Silica will do this to ya!!! Debra...

[Lilly]

Hello Friends, It has been awhile since I have been a regular on the forum......And I am catching up a bit......seeing new people, I cant believe how much I have missed. But when I saw this thread, I had to tell yall about my parents dog. He is a full blooded schnauzer, and about 8 yrs old. He "Snicker" has always been a very smart and healthy dog. About a year ago, he began having some skin issues, which were treated, but his ears were another issue. His ears were doing a very strange thing, they were building up with thick scab-like tissues that would crack and bleed, get infected, and made his ears very heavy. He would shake his head, and just became very inactive and slept all the time. My Mon and Daddy treated him with topical "over the counter" medication that would heal it "almost" up, but the scabbing kept spreading deeper and deeper into his ears. So our veterinarian felt like this was something he had heard of, but never actually had a patient with it......"Vasculitis"! Wow, how crazy is that? So Snicker is now back to his normal self, after treatment (for his type of vasculitis, it is not very expensive, but he is going to be on meds for the rest of his life) His poor ears took a couple of months to totally heal. But now, he gradually became more active, and is now back to his normal daily "antics" he and my Daddy have. Their daily routine.....getting the morning paper together......taking out the trash together......playing hide and seek every morning....You get the idea. I have always called Snicker my "little brother"..LOL....and now we have something in common! (I'm just glad I don't have it in my ears! :-) )

[annekat]

Hello Friends, It has been awhile since I have been a regular on the forum......And I am catching up a bit......seeing new people, I cant believe how much I have missed. But when I saw this thread, I had to tell yall about my parents dog. He is a full blooded schnauzer, and about 8 yrs old. He "Snicker" has always been a very smart and healthy dog. About a year ago, he began having some skin issues, which were treated, but his ears were another issue. His ears were doing a very strange thing, they were building up with thick scab-like tissues that would crack and bleed, get infected, and made his ears very heavy. He would shake his head, and just became very inactive and slept all the time. My Mon and Daddy treated him with topical "over the counter" medication that would heal it "almost" up, but the scabbing kept spreading deeper and deeper into his ears. So our veterinarian felt like this was something he had heard of, but never actually had a patient with it......"Vasculitis"! Wow, how crazy is that? So Snicker is now back to his normal self, after treatment (for his type of vasculitis, it is not very expensive, but he is going to be on meds for the rest of his life) His poor ears took a couple of months to totally heal. But now, he gradually became more active, and is now back to his normal daily "antics" he and my Daddy have. Their daily routine.....getting the morning paper together......taking out the trash together......playing hide and seek every morning....You get the idea. I have always called Snicker my "little brother"..LOL....and now we have something in common! (I'm just glad I don't have it in my ears! :-) ) Nice to see you, Lilly... that crusting and scabbing in Snicker's ears sounds more like what we get in our noses and sinuses.....though we definitely have ear problems, just not those exact ones, usually.... the various ways in which vasculitis manifests itself are indeed infinite, it seems!

[debra]

Lily, hi! Lily, that's a cool story! Animals are amazing, and yes I too look at my parents dog bow, as a brother! Haha, he's a black pug, so not the most attractive brother! But hey, what's looks anyway, right??? Lily, hope you're well... Anne, hello, there... Deb...

[annekat]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6518920_Diagnosis_and_management_of_Wegener's_gran ulomatosis_in_a_dog Here's one from today's Facebook (where the original one came from, too) describing the dog with gingivitis mentioned above, but this time, showing the dog's picture and the inside of his mouth. You people who think FB sucks do miss out on some stuff and those of us on there aren't going to post everything here. Not saying I don't think the forum is the best, just that there are a couple guys on FB who spend a whole lot of their own personal time researching scientific studies and article about vasculitis! There are so many that I never read them all.... too time consuming.

Addition: you might not see the pics right away but look for a window that says "see full text" and then see if you can enlarge the window with the picture.... It happened two different ways for me. A lot of these require some sort of subscription to see everything, but I managed to get a good view of the dog's mouth. Pretty bad gingivitis....

Addition #2- I think the full text is here, with several pics and a slide sample and lots of detailed discussion! So I guess Jim over on FB must have paid for the subscription, or something. Hope it works for you like it did for me.

[Debbie C]

Hi Lily..how you been ? That's pretty crazy about your parents dog..did they give him pred ???
Anne, that poor dog, I bet that hurt .This pics looked looked like it would.

[debra]

Anne, hello... Anne I am terrified to press links, as I'm getting by, by the skin of my teeth here! I pressed a link, not here but elsewhere and it was hell in a hand basket! Any chance on posting it here? Or a description? Anne, I agree the vasculitis site is cool, was there years back, I think people including myself are talking about the personal Facebook, where people takep pictures of their lobster dinner and feel a need to show a life, that's just nothing but greatness... So again, its the personal pages, and hey, if posting non stop about how great you're life is, well good for you, I'm glad, I however live in a real world, but would sure like to visit youres! My sister inlaw does this all day long, when not working... I tell her all the time, well on phone anyway, you're a real peace of work! Haha... Whatever, right? Deb...

[annekat]

Anne, hello... Anne I am terrified to press links, as I'm getting by, by the skin of my teeth here! I pressed a link, not here but elsewhere and it was hell in a hand basket! Any chance on posting it here? Or a description? Anne, I agree the vasculitis site is cool, was there years back, I think people including myself are talking about the personal Facebook, where people takep pictures of their lobster dinner and feel a need to show a life, that's just nothing but greatness... So again, its the personal pages, and hey, if posting non stop about how great you're life is, well good for you, I'm glad, I however live in a real world, but would sure like to visit youres! My sister inlaw does this all day long, when not working... I tell her all the time, well on phone anyway, you're a real peace of work! Haha... Whatever, right? Deb... Facebook is what it is. It is what people make of it. It is easy to avoid the crap you don't like by not responding to it, being careful who your friends are, etc. You can ignore what you don't want to read or look at and no one will notice or care. There are a lot of good groups on there about a lot of things and a lot of good people on there. Also a lot of idiots. Just like the world.

There is not much I can do about that article except post links. It is too long to make selections from it, copy and paste any of that. I think I tried to capture a pic of the dog's mouth. I got the feeling you have a computer as well as a phone, and maybe you'd have a better experience with links and web page viewing on there. Sorry, low on energy, need to go to bed.

[annekat]

Hi Lily..how you been ? That's pretty crazy about your parents dog..did they give him pred ???
Anne, that poor dog, I bet that hurt .This pics looked looked like it would. I felt bad for that dog, too.... it looked like with treatment the redness went away and the tissue looked a lot more healthy, but the teeth seemed more crooked or deformed in some way than before, I didn't really read that part. But at least maybe his gum pain was gone.

[annekat]

Deb, I tried posting a pic of the dog's mouth and the file was too large. I'm as much of a dummy as anyone about posting pics. You need to use a device that you are comfortable opening links on with a decent enough sized screen that you can actually see anything. The print in this article was very small. I'm getting off here now, I think. Good night. XOXOXO

[Realpro325]

I can't freakin believe this. Here I am suffering for years with no remission in sight and this dog gets more relief than me. All I can say is God works in mysterious ways. LOL ! A doggone miracle it is !!LOL !
James


This almost sounds like a joke... but apparently not. Good news is the dog was treated with immunosuppressants, his symptoms improved, and he went into remission. If only we all had docs as good as his!

Diagnosis and management of Wegener's granulomatosis in a dog. - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=wegener%27s+dog)

[debra]

James, hahaha... So funny... How are you, James? Nice seeing you! Anne, hello! Anne, it doesn't matter if its cell or computer, I just won't, because I had a real tuff time with a virus, and I'm just ocd careful... It's no big deal, I thought it was a simple picture. Thanks for trying! Deb...

[Realpro325]

Hey Deb,
I am trying to feel better as I get on here and see how screwed everyone else is and that really helps me feel a little better. LOL !! HA !
As a tear rolls down my face from pain from laughing to much. Wow ! LOl ! I just wanted to have a little fun and use some exclamation points...
Hope that I made you smile .Lets just sit here and smile for a minute. That was a great 30sec minute you know how men are with time.
Be blessed,
James

[Alysia]

Hello Friends, It has been awhile since I have been a regular on the forum......And I am catching up a bit......seeing new people, I cant believe how much I have missed. But when I saw this thread, I had to tell yall about my parents dog. He is a full blooded schnauzer, and about 8 yrs old. He "Snicker" has always been a very smart and healthy dog. About a year ago, he began having some skin issues, which were treated, but his ears were another issue. His ears were doing a very strange thing, they were building up with thick scab-like tissues that would crack and bleed, get infected, and made his ears very heavy. He would shake his head, and just became very inactive and slept all the time. My Mon and Daddy treated him with topical "over the counter" medication that would heal it "almost" up, but the scabbing kept spreading deeper and deeper into his ears. So our veterinarian felt like this was something he had heard of, but never actually had a patient with it......"Vasculitis"! Wow, how crazy is that? So Snicker is now back to his normal self, after treatment (for his type of vasculitis, it is not very expensive, but he is going to be on meds for the rest of his life) His poor ears took a couple of months to totally heal. But now, he gradually became more active, and is now back to his normal daily "antics" he and my Daddy have. Their daily routine.....getting the morning paper together......taking out the trash together......playing hide and seek every morning....You get the idea. I have always called Snicker my "little brother"..LOL....and now we have something in common! (I'm just glad I don't have it in my ears! :-) )

Hi Lilly. Nice to see you around ♡♡♡
I hope that you continue to feel better and I keep you in my daily prayers, with love ♡♡♡
Thanks for sharing about your parents' dog.
I suddenly had a though, my oldest cat, Preta, which is 6 years old, is coughing in the last year. The vet didnt find anything. And then lately she has tearful eyes and her tears are a bit bloody. Oh, my Preta, what if she also has wg ?? And then maybe it is something in the house ???

2362

[annekat]

Alysia, I hope nothing is seriously wrong with your cat! If not WG, there could be other things that would cause these symptoms.... my dad always wanted me to be a veterinarian, but I'm not! Best of luck and good health to Preta!

[debra]

James, so funny... Yes I smiled! Alysia! Oh no, not Wg? The cat showing symptoms? Man, it never ends... My ferret, no dout died of Wg, coarse no one is this stupid, to do what I did! So, is it any wonder? Hello, again Anne! Hey, you guys, I woman approached me today, her names Cindy, and she's a trip, she said, Deb, my cat is about to give birth, and I want you to have one! Haha... I'm not a cat person, and didn't want to leave a pet abandoned, if my time comes soon, so get this, she says, I will check on you, and if something happens, I will care for the cat! And she will supply the food! Unbelievable! How on earth can I pass this up? So... Yes I'm thinking! I miss having a pet! So much... Some things, just fall in you're lap, ya know? Some things never do, nor will they... Ah, life... Debra...

[debra]

Oh, typos! So sorry... Deb...typo is my middle name...

[annekat]

Deb, just make sure she waits at least 8 weeks, preferably 10, before giving away the kittens. And get it spayed or neutered.

[debra]

Hello, beautiful! Anne, I can't believe I'm even considering this! Let's just hope she doesn't bring the little man here, cause I'm a huge sucker for babies! I swear I'd take a baby elephant... Actually that would be real cool... It just wouldn't be a smart thing, considering, and this crap, that I tried hard to rid my pad of, is still in here! It will never leave Anne! Vents are being cleaned, but no matter, its real tuff to get rid of, as its just so fine... So... I'm really hoping to not see him, when he comes into this wonderful world, otherwise my heart will no doubt break, then I'll be a cat owner! Just can't be an owner right now Anne.. who knows, I'm thinking of ways... Oh, and she does this professional, so yes she would no doubt take care of all that... Anne hope you're good! Deb...xox...!!!

[annekat]

Hello, beautiful! Anne, I can't believe I'm even considering this! Let's just hope she doesn't bring the little man here, cause I'm a huge sucker for babies! I swear I'd take a baby elephant... Actually that would be real cool... It just wouldn't be a smart thing, considering, and this crap, that I tried hard to rid my pad of, is still in here! It will never leave Anne! Vents are being cleaned, but no matter, its real tuff to get rid of, as its just so fine... So... I'm really hoping to not see him, when he comes into this wonderful world, otherwise my heart will no doubt break, then I'll be a cat owner! Just can't be an owner right now Anne.. who knows, I'm thinking of ways... Oh, and she does this professional, so yes she would no doubt take care of all that... Anne hope you're good! Deb...xox...!!! She needs to get her mama spayed..... Don't go for it unless you are sure you want to take care of something for 20 years! I have three rescued as ferals at about 7-8 weeks, a little young, but that's how it worked out..... from 2 different litters, and then a local group trapped Mama, got her spayed, and brought her back to her home at the Market, where she lives with two offspring, also fixed by this great organization, and brought back, too wild to adopt. ..... But I wish I'd found homes for the last two, a brother and sister, so I'd just have my original guy. Too late, though, as feral rescues get very bonded to their owners and are afraid of other people. Or that's their tendency, and mine are. Well at least it is interesting that you are considering being a cat person! It just might work out, somehow....

Forgot to say, today was good, no vertigo, did errands in town and then went for a walk, much better day than yesterday, and good weather here, too! Daffodils, magnolias, primroses, and other stuff are about to pop into bloom!

[debra]

Anne! This change in me, is terrifying! Haha... I'm a dog person! And ferrets because once you own one, they steal you're heart, big time... They are smarter than dogs! And their tiny bodies, are the closest to a humans, which is why unfotunately they use them for human experiments... Sad for them, cause, they really are sweet... Anne, she does this, I think fora living, on the side, so not sure what she'll do in that matter... As far as the twenty years? Haha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anne, I'll be thrilled with twenty days!!!!!!! Anne, you crack me up... Wasn't given the twenty a thought! Deb...Xox...!!!

[annekat]

Anne! This change in me, is terrifying! Haha... I'm a dog person! And ferrets because once you own one, they steal you're heart, big time... They are smarter than dogs! And their tiny bodies, are the closest to a humans, which is why unfotunately they use them for human experiments... Sad for them, cause, they really are sweet... Anne, she does this, I think fora living, on the side, so not sure what she'll do in that matter... As far as the twenty years? Haha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anne, I'll be thrilled with twenty days!!!!!!! Anne, you crack me up... Wasn't given the twenty a thought! Deb...Xox...!!! I understand, but you were concerned about leaving the cat behind if you went first, I thought..... I have that concern about my cats, and won't get more unless I know there is someone who love and care for them when I'm gone.... Another option is to be a foster mom for little rescue kittens who need homes but are not old enough or socialized enough to adopt. I think I'd like that. Dogs are more responsibility, more work, and more dependent on you, all the time!

[debra]

Anne, hi! The only reason I actually considered this at all, was cause she said she would take him, when that time comes... One thing we didn't discuss, is what if she goes first??? Ya just never know! She's not sick, that I know of, but still... So, ya I'm still thinking??? Thank Anne! Always helpful advice... Deb...Xox...!!!

[annekat]

Anne, hi! The only reason I actually considered this at all, was cause she said she would take him, when that time comes... One thing we didn't discuss, is what if she goes first??? Ya just never know! She's not sick, that I know of, but still... So, ya I'm still thinking??? Thank Anne! Always helpful advice... Deb...Xox...!!! Well, that's good, and this kitten will already know her so there shouldn't be any problem if she takes him back... even if you don't "go" but decide you can't be a cat owner for whatever reason. Well socialized cats are pretty adaptable that way. I think dogs have a harder time with losing their owners and adjusting to being re-homed. It is an issue with anyone, we never know what's going to happen tomorrow.

[debra]

True that, Anne... Still thinking on it, but probably not... Unless I see him!!! Haha... Thanks, Anne... Deb...

[vdub]

New area for socializing....
2364 (http://www.wegeners-granulomatosis.com/forum/random-off-topic-discussion/5201-random-off-topic-discussion.html)

[debra]

Vdub, thank you! Saw it, great idea... Sorry, Again, Vdub, I'm so guilty of this... Deb...

[vdub]

no worries..... thanks for understanding....

[debra]

Vdub, I totally understand, and am sincerely sorry... Hard to believe as it is, ready for it? Sometimes I just don't think! Shocking, yes I know... Again, I apologize, I'm so guilty, I'm itching right now... Thank you, guys for everything you do... Deb...