Measles

[vdub]

I'm not sure if all of you get to follow US news or not, but measles is becoming a big issue here. A few weeks ago, some unvaccinated kids attended Disneyland in southern California and spread the disease to a lot of other unvaccinated kids. The disease is now spreading throughout the western part of the US and probably the world.

According to the news this morning, the odds of one of catching the disease if exposed and not vaccinated, is about 90%. Those aren't good odds and I'm sure its higher for us who are immune suppressed.

I think most of us in western civilization had almost forgotten about the disease, since it was nearly eradicated because of mass vaccinations in the '50's and 60's. But, if you look up measles, its a very nasty disease -- I hadn't given it much thought until now.

The CDC is expecting the Super Bowl to be a big spreader of the disease. Some schools are refusing to allow students to enter the building unless they have proof of vaccination. And some doctor buildings are shuffling unvaccinated people to other entrances or refusing to see them at all. I think there is a good chance that the vaccination issue will eventually be settled by the courts.

This message isn't intended to start a "yes or no" discussion on vaccinations or fan the flames of passion. I'm just saying that this is what's going on here. You might want to check with your doctor to see if your vaccinations are up to speed and see if you should get a shot. Again, this message isn't intended to start a discussion on pro/con of vaccinations, so I don't want to see that -- just check with your doctor.

[mrtmeo]

You are not quoting the right statistics.
Nearly all children 92-95% are vaccinated with MMR, yet measles continues and they want to blame it on the unvaccinated?

Case in point: there were 644 cases of measles reported in America in 2014, 12 (http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/January-2015/measles-in-disneyland-third-mmr-shot-and-vaccine.aspx#_edn12) even though 95% of children entering kindergarten 13 (http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/January-2015/measles-in-disneyland-third-mmr-shot-and-vaccine.aspx#_edn13) have gotten two doses of MMR vaccine, which is also true for 92% of school children ages 13 to 17 years. 14 (http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/January-2015/measles-in-disneyland-third-mmr-shot-and-vaccine.aspx#_edn14) Plus, less than one percent of children under age three are completely unvaccinated and 92% of them have gotten one or more MMR shots. 15 (http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/January-2015/measles-in-disneyland-third-mmr-shot-and-vaccine.aspx#_edn15) In some states, the MMR vaccination rate is approaching 100 percent. 16 (http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/January-2015/measles-in-disneyland-third-mmr-shot-and-vaccine.aspx#_edn16)

Measles in Disneyland - Vaccine Exemption Ban - National Vaccine Information Center Newsletter (http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/January-2015/measles-in-disneyland-third-mmr-shot-and-vaccine.aspx)


It's not the unvaccinated spreading measles, but the vaccinated.

[vdub]

My 90% and the rest of the story came from abc on gma, so you'll have to take up that issue with them.... However, you can probably watch it on-line when they post it tomorrow.

I absolutely don't want to start a debate. That was not the point of my message. My point was that people, especially us, need to be aware of what's going on and how it might effect us.

However, if you are going to debate this or any other issue on this forum, please use good qualified sources as your reference. We need to be very careful about how credible our info is.

As a rule of thumb, but certainly not exclusive, if a url ends in .edu or .gov, then it's probably credible. If the citation is from a well-respected, peer-reviewed magazine such as JAMA, then it is probably credible. Another test is to google the name of the organization you want to quote along with the words "quack" or "junk" and critically read the hits you get to see what others say about the institution.

For instance, google "national institute health quack" and see if the nih is posted on quackwatch as an institution that can't be trusted for good science or if any peer research institutions regard nih research as suspicious. And, you can do the same for abc news, too, although, I realize abc news is not super credible nor a gold standard to admire, but they generally aren't being attacked for "quackery", either. Thanks for your understanding.

[mrtmeo]

The NVIC is one the best well cited and respected orgs on vaccine injury and unbiased.
Yes, people need to be very careful right now due to these diseases and wearing a mask and washing hands has been proven to be one of the best ways to keep us from diseases and staying away from crowded places.
Keeping a topic one sided doesn't provide an informed choice.
Everyone has the right to both sides of an issue.

[vdub]

Arguing this won't go anywhere. That's why we don't do it. And, that's why I said in the first message that this was simply a message for info and not intended to fan the flames of passion.

My point is "don't pedal too much junk science". Keep it real and keep it out of the tin foil hat conspiracy arena. 'nough said.

[Alysia]

I'm not arguing, not going to start, I'm just sad that this is how the other side of the conversation is always treated, and I will share my feelings with you, if that's still OK.

My life got slaughtered by believing all the .edu's and .gov's and when I speak up about it, this is often the kind of responses I get and I find it very hurtful and not at all supportive. Where did the empathy and compassion go?

I'm just as susceptible to severe complications from these highly infectious diseases as everyone on here, but I don't have the option to get vaccinated, because I got vaccinated in the first place, but this is not a safe place for me to share these feelings, and it makes me sad, because it use to be. I'm not making **** up. I've spent years looking into this and the systems in place around it - only because it affected ME and my family directly, not because I want to go out on the internet and start fights with people I have never met in person, but I'm treated like an idiot who sits at home with nothing to do, waiting for the aliens to come down and zap me while I protect myself with my little tin foil hat. It's hurtful and insulting.

I will say no more on this topic, because it's clearly obvious how welcome this is here.

Dear Marta,
I am ignorant in those issues, I just wanted to say that I appriciate your wisdom and wealth of knowledge, and allways love to read your posts. don't ever stop writing. the more - the better.
If my sweet Phil was still around, I bet he would have echo your words. he used to think much the same as you do.
hugs. and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[vdub]

You missed the point. The point is that these issues shouldn't be argued here as there is a no win situation. Its just like religion or politics. No body is going to win, so lets not discuss it. That is exactly what I said in the very first message when I was simply explaining what was going on here in the US. I wasn't interjecting an opinion, only stating what was happening. And, as an update, this evening, CBS evening news interviewed doctors who are refusing to have unvaccinated people as patients.

And, the second point would be, which I really didn't want to get into at all, but was pressed to it, is that if you are going to discuss this stuff, then at least cite qualified sources, good respected research institutions, with qualified researchers. Believe you did that the other day with a couple of citations on something you were discussing. I actually committed that your sources were good.

But, you can't deny what is happening in the news and what is being reported to us. The discussion should be with doctors not with us. No one on this forum is in a qualified position to tell you or anyone else what to do or even recommend what to do -- only your doctor should be advising on issues like this.

[mrtmeo]

I'm not arguing, not going to start, I'm just sad that this is how the other side of the conversation is always treated, and I will share my feelings with you, if that's still OK.

My life got slaughtered by believing all the .edu's and .gov's and when I speak up about it, this is often the kind of responses I get and I find it very hurtful and not at all supportive. Where did the empathy and compassion go?

I'm just as susceptible to severe complications from these highly infectious diseases as everyone on here, but I don't have the option to get vaccinated, because I got vaccinated in the first place, but this is not a safe place for me to share these feelings, and it makes me sad, because it use to be. I'm not making **** up. I've spent years looking into this and the systems in place around it - only because it affected ME and my family directly, not because I want to go out on the internet and start fights with people I have never met in person, but I'm treated like an idiot who sits at home with nothing to do, waiting for the aliens to come down and zap me while I protect myself with my little tin foil hat. It's hurtful and insulting.

I will say no more on this topic, because it's clearly obvious how welcome this is here.

I agree with Alysia,
Marta, your info is always very informative and necessary for thousands that read and might not post on this forum.
So, please don't leave because of those that like to flame.
Be aware that you might not get all the applauses posted on this forum due to intimidation, but those thousands are out there applauding you.

[godgirl]

I don't get involved in the whole vaccinated/unvaccinated debate. But I do have something that you guys might want to hear about, though.

About 5 yrs ago, I started filling in at our surgery centers front desks. I had to have bloodwork by our employee health to look at my immunity with certain diseases (blood titers). Found out I did not have any immunity to measles! That was a huge surprise. Had to get re-vaccinated.

Had to have the titers redone a couple of years ago - because of that initial titer missing. Guess what? No titers for measles - AGAIN. So, I can't work at our centers because of the risk. Luckily, my main job is at a business office - no patient interaction. This was all before the WG/MPA started with me. The docs said it's like the vaccination just didn't take or that my body doesn't process it.

I would encourage all adults with WG that are concerned about this measles scare to have their blood titers done. It surprised the heck out of me, however, I now watch it when there is a measles outbreak so I can keep myself safe. I have no idea how often this happens, so I don't have any statistics... I DO know that our employee health department wasn't too surprised, so I wonder just how often this happens... I just know it happened with me.

Flip side? I found out what I've always suspected. I AM naturally immune to the chicken pox. :)

Jen

[mrtmeo]

I don't get involved in the whole vaccinated/unvaccinated debate. But I do have something that you guys might want to hear about, though.

About 5 yrs ago, I started filling in at our surgery centers front desks. I had to have bloodwork by our employee health to look at my immunity with certain diseases (blood titers). Found out I did not have any immunity to measles! That was a huge surprise. Had to get re-vaccinated.

Had to have the titers redone a couple of years ago - because of that initial titer missing. Guess what? No titers for measles - AGAIN. So, I can't work at our centers because of the risk. Luckily, my main job is at a business office - no patient interaction. This was all before the WG/MPA started with me. The docs said it's like the vaccination just didn't take or that my body doesn't process it.

I would encourage all adults with WG that are concerned about this measles scare to have their blood titers done. It surprised the heck out of me, however, I now watch it when there is a measles outbreak so I can keep myself safe. I have no idea how often this happens, so I don't have any statistics... I DO know that our employee health department wasn't too surprised, so I wonder just how often this happens... I just know it happened with me.

Flip side? I found out what I've always suspected. I AM naturally immune to the chicken pox. :)

Jen

immune theory is that if you have high titers (antibodies against) of a particular disease in your blood stream, that you are protected against that disease.
However, it really only means that your body has had exposure to that disease.
Studies have shown that even those with high antibody titers against a disease can still have the symptoms of the disease.
With weg's and mpa, we have high titers of pr3 or mpo because we have the active disease.
Unfortuneatly, having high titers of chicken pox means you have chicken pox still in your body, but it maybe dormant.

[Debbie C]

Well Vdub,that didn't go well !!! I think this whole conversation got completely out of control. I don't think vdub was trying to insult anyones intelligence but simply just stating a fact to those that maybe don't live in the states or others unaware of the situation the happened recently a Disneyland since people visit nation wide there and the measles stay airborne for up to 2 hrs( I heard that on the news also ! ) and that we ,with lower immune systems need to be vigilate. I don't believe he said to run out and get vaccinated.
And Marta ,I love you and all you do and bring to the group. I can't wait till your book comes out.
Thats ALL I am saying on the subject so I don't want anyone getting on my case now.....

[vdub]

That is exactly what I was trying to say. Maybe I didn't say it well enough.

I probably shouldn't even post this, but if you are interested and want more info that is pretty much as impartial as you can get, then you could watch this program from NOVA.
NOVA | Vaccines?Calling the Shots (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/vaccines-calling-shots.html)

NOVA is the American version of the British program Horizon. They are very similar and might even share programming from time-to-time. NOVA airs on the Public Broadcasting System. I think this url should be available worldwide. I haven't actually watched it myself, but the title interested me. I saw it advertised off to the side while I was watching Downton Abbey, which is one of my favorites. I haven't even seen a trailer for the program, so I have no idea what information is in. Maybe someone else can tell me. The info should be current as the program aired just a few months ago in Sept 2014.

Aside from this, I'm pretty much done with it....

[mishb]

Being from Australia, even though this post wasn't news to me because it was in our papers, it only mentioned about the kids at Disneyland.


Both sides of the fence/issue are interesting to read and I don't think anyone is stepping out of line (really) in saying a for or against.


What scares me, is that I am heading to the USA in April/May :sad:


Having vdub post about the measles also being outside of Disneyland (where I wasn't heading to this time), is very scary indeed.


Thankyou vdub, thank you Blake and also thank you Marta.


This forum is awesome

[mrtmeo]

Hi Michelle,
Hopefully, your trip to the USA will go well!
April is when we in the northern areas can get vitamin D from the sun and the flu season is over.

[vdub]

Mish, if you have had measles and survived or if you have been vaccinated against measles, then you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Those who are getting measles in the US and Canada are people (mostly kids) who have not been vaccinated. As long as you are vaccinated, you would be really crazy to cancel your trip. Here is a recent news report....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upev6vEEEEk

NSW had a similar outbreak in 2012, but a free vaccination campaign halted the outbreak and measles was declared as eradicated in Australia in 2014.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq5oSQNicZo

Department of Health | Measles – Elimination Achieved in Australia (http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/ohp-measles-elim-announce-2014.htm)

And, now I will lock the thread. I'm sorry I even brought this issue up.....