PDA

View Full Version : some things never change.



crackers
08-11-2009, 09:48 AM
the other night i watched a documentary about our national health service and the battle to get it started in 1948.the main opponents were the elite of the medical profession,consultants,surgeons down to general practitioners.they were doing very nicely,thank you,as the system stood and didn't want it to change regardless of the fact that the vast majority of people couldn't afford proper medical care.the mortality rates of babies was shocking.the opponents waged a campaign of scare stories and smear attacks against aneurin bevan,the politician whose brainchild it was.it was the first step on the road to communism,doctors would be told by the government who to treat and not treat,bevan was being paid by the russians.in the end it was the people who decided,who when given the choice between seeing a nhs doctor for free or their old doctor,chose in their hundreds of thousands the nhs.the opposition crumbled and the rest is history.
then tonight i watched a news report on the bbc about the opposition to obama's plans for health care changes in the usa.i'll be honest and say i don't know what his plans are but what struck me was the similarity of the oppositions tactics to that of 1948.the scare stories regarding communism and socialism.the right wing media and their smear campaigns.it seems to me that the ones who oppose these schemes the loudest are the ones that don't need to use them.i find it amusing that those who defend the "let the market decide"system were the first with their hands out when the banks were collapsing on a daily basis.tax payers money is good enough for them but not for the healthcare of ordinary people.
anyway i wish mr obama good luck and i hope the good people of america get a scheme that looks after them.
john.

Sangye
08-11-2009, 11:45 AM
I hear ya. It's pretty ugly here right now. I just hope we can settle on something that helps everyone.

GeorgiaInOhio
08-11-2009, 12:57 PM
I am on the Obama email list and get emails on a weekly basis, and honestly I stopped reading them a few months ago because it eventually became like spam (LOL) so I havent been up to date on his health care reform. The things Ive seen on yahoo kind of scare me, I thought he was going more for the let the government control your healthcare, even tho it would be free, so I dont know. I could be wrong. I hope im wrong.

I do hope its not like his school proposal, all government run schools, no private schools. I dont know about you but where I live, I am very fortunate to have a "public/private" school, where the local town pays for our school system in conjuction with government funding. It is #2 in the state for education. The public-- all government run schools in the citys around me (where I getsdid my edumication darnit!) are among the lowest in the state. I know its that way everywhere. If his plan goes thru for this, the schools in my area will become government run, funded, and taken over. All teachers will make the same- great for those who are not paid well now, but bad for the great teachers who work at the schools, who are hired for their excellence, paid out of their budget for it, and know they have to work hard to meet the standard to keep it!

its very complicated and lots of issues in there so i wont go into it. Ill have to research his medical agenda more... now youve got me interested. Heck, I campaigned for him, may as well see what he's doing now. He just threw me when about 50 things changed after he got into office. I just kind of switched off the obama support to, "uh, i dont know this guy" lol. Lets hope he is on track and gets health care the way it should be!

jola57
08-11-2009, 01:06 PM
As a strong proponent of health care for all being a canuck, I see private health care merrits too. To many a time my husband and the surgeons can't operate because the quota for the day is done, or there are no more money in the kitty. They go around it by saying it was an emergency or the case was started before the end of the day just so that they can operate on as many as they can. Government controll is fine and dandy when there is money to spend but badly falters when there is none and essential services are cut. Waiting lists for surgeries are at least 3 to 9 months long. for hart patients or other urgent cases this it's impossible

Jack
08-11-2009, 04:12 PM
Surgery here is determined by clinical need, but they also have a cap at 3 months (I think). The target for cancer patients is 2 weeks. However, as with anything involving politics, claims vary wildly! I can only report things as I have experienced them.
In my own case, I've always received treatment within a few weeks and in one case of a questionable skin cancer, the following day! (turned out to be nothing :) ) I am currently waiting to hear about my ear grommets op, but I'm expecting to have to wait a while. Even I don't consider it to be that urgent. ;)

Sangye
08-11-2009, 11:52 PM
The idea of "rationing" health care understandably scares the pants off everyone. The thing is, we're already rationing health care with our current system.

State medical assistance is nightmarish. It takes MONTHS to see a specialist, even with quite serious and life-threatening problems. When I had Arizona medical assistance, I needed an infected molar surgically extracted during my early days with Wegs. (Good thing, because AZ medicaid only pays for tooth extractions, not fillings or anything else. So poor people have to have healthy teeth pulled all the time--even kids)

The nearest medicaid oral surgeon was a 3 hr drive across mostly desert. They offered to provide "transportation" in the form of a regular guy in his regular car (ie, no medical training), but it would take a few weeks to get it scheduled. None of my docs, dentist, etc...would okay any of that. I was still on oxygen and in dicey shape. The surgery was extremely high risk. Medicaid wouldn't authorize a local oral surgeon to do it, and non-medicaid surgeons weren't even allowed to treat me even if I paid myself. For 2 weeks, I had a painful, infected tooth and I was on heavy immunosuppressants. They wouldn't budge. Finally I had to go to a local one and just forgot to tell him I had medicaid. I put it on a credit card. I wrote the governor and explained what I had been forced to do.

Rationing also happens with private insurance. Most insurance won't authorize Rituxan unless everything else has failed, because it's so pricey. Sometimes not even then. Insurance companies have caps on how many visits you can have in a year for certain types of treatment (eg, physical therapy, chiropractic, psychotherapy). There are lifetime policy caps. I live in fear of all those things every day, and I have what would be considered excellent private insurance.

Denial of services is a major problem, too. I have a permanent fracture on the underside of one kneecap, due to a fall 20 yrs ago. I fell last year and it's substantially worse. I can barely use the knee. But because it's a pre-existing condition, I have zero insurance coverage for it.

I think a lot of people with good insurance are content because they don't really have to use it. Get something like Wegs and reality hits. I also think a lot of people don't know how it is to be uninsured or underinsured. There was an excellent story on NPR last week about a mobile medical assistance team. I did a blog piece on it if you're interested (not to promote my blog or NPR-- it was just a good example of how uninsured people live).

I do believe we can find a way to work together. Everyone wants good health care, and I don't believe anyone truly wants anyone else to suffer for lack of it.

Doug
08-12-2009, 12:50 AM
I think a lot of people with good insurance are content because they don't really have to use it. Get something like Wegs and reality hits. I also think a lot of people don't know how it is to be uninsured or underinsured. There was an excellent story on NPR last week about a mobile medical assistance team. I did a blog piece on it if you're interested (not to promote my blog or NPR-- it was just a good example of how uninsured people live).

While there, don't forget to read Sangye's other postings, including a highly entertaining one about a turtle incident and another about "sniffing the lower back" (I won't spoil it by going into more detail, but this is Sangye at her humorous best! :):):):) + 1

coffeelover
08-12-2009, 11:47 AM
This healthcare issue seems like it should be such an easy fix, BUT it is not. There are so many cirlces to spin to make it work. If anyone can do something, it will be Obama. I believe that anything is better than nothing at this point.
Currently my daughter is past the age of "student", but she is still a student at the University and because myt husbands insurance company does not insure past age 23, she is now completely without insurance. ARGHHHHH! She is not alone! There are millions of Americans without insurance and if they do have insurance they are insurance poor (like me)
A disease like WG can really mess you up, becuase it is a chronic disease, if my husband would try to get another job, they may not insure me or anything to do with the WG because they do not have to at this point. Obama is trying to change thatm unfortunately it sometimes is at the expense of other positives that the private insurance companies offer now.
Its a crap shoot! I trust that highly intelligiebnt people are working on this and hope the "light bulb moment" comes sooner rather than later
not enough coffee for this gal today
LIsa

jola57
08-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Question, supose someone of your doughter's age got our dreade BFF, and has no income or very little off. Will they not get any treatment? Please tell me that they would treat the person. there must be state run hospitals

Sangye
08-13-2009, 12:24 AM
I know of such people, and they are going without treatment. Some are waiting for state assistance to go through, but of course that assistance is often not adequate or even close. Meanwhile, they are damaging organs, living in excruciating pain, and risking their lives every day. If these stories were in the headlines, I can't imagine there'd be the arguments we're seeing. Or maybe there would, but I just can't stand to think of it.

Jack
08-13-2009, 12:51 AM
I can't imagine living without our NHS service. People moan about it of course, but I've always been treated very well. You can even choose which hospital you want to use these days.
If you are that unhappy with the NHS, we still have a large private insurance and treatment system. I was in a position to use it once and the only difference seemed to be nicer decoration, coffee and biscuits! The consultant I saw was the same one who later treated (and nearly killed!) me in the state run hospital.

Sangye
08-13-2009, 12:56 AM
No system is going to be perfect. I think the folks who whine about the NHS should be invited to the US and live with this system for a time. Bet they'd be on the first plane back!

jola57
08-13-2009, 05:51 AM
No system is perfect and as ours is a government run, you can imagine the shortages. Not having a private insurance I am now stuck paying for all my medication. I too have an absessed tooth and will go to have a look at it, if I can get it done thru the hospital at least that part will be covered by the insurance. Which by the way is not free. I pay $680 per quarter year for 2 people. Just heard on the radio that people polled in US were 50 percent happy with medicare there and thought it adequate and only 45 thought canadian was better.

Luce
08-13-2009, 09:12 AM
I don't like to moan about our NHS but when I do it's only little niggles, but as you say no system is perfect.
I do realise just how lucky we are here, despite the flaws I have come across I have still had at least 35k of plasma treatment completely free of charge to me.

I cannot imagine being taken to the emergency room and not being treated until my insurance checked out - that is just crazy.

jola57
08-13-2009, 02:26 PM
I have not had to have dialysis or plasma treatment but both are covered. Medical in hospital treatments are all covered. I wanted physiotherapy for my dropped foot - no go even with a docs prescription I would have to pay.

Jack
08-14-2009, 02:15 PM
I have just been listening to some of the arguments being put forward in the USA against a state medical system. They are using the NHS as an example and simply telling lies! I'm outraged!

It is not true that we are denied expensive treatments - my own case is a good example. I hate to think how much my treatment must cost. There is a department that gives approval to treatments, but only the very expensive ones with debatable effectiveness are ruled out. I doubt that private insurance would cover most of these.

Old people are allowed to die - often just the opposite is true! My mother-in-law was kept alive in a pitiful condition for 9 months at the insistance of her husband. While treatment is being requested, doctors find it very difficult to withdraw it. The old and sick are not "allowed to die".

The condition of British teeth! - A bit of a joke in the USA I know, but most people have quite good teeth. Interestingly, the dental sector is almost entirely outside the provision of the NHS and relies on private health insurance or simply direct payments from patients. There is cover for some groups and subsidies for others, but many people are not in a position to pay for expensive treatment so cosmetic appearance must take a lower priority for them. Emergency hospital treatment is still free.

The popularity of the British NHS system must be judged by the reaction of the people using it. There is overwhelming support for its continuation and an outcry when any government hints at reducing funding or moving parts of its provision to the private sector.
We live in fear of an American system and are proud of the fact that everyone gets treatment if they need it. Even visitors from the States!

pberggren1
08-14-2009, 02:35 PM
Jolanta,

I am pretty lucky here in Saskatchewan. Sask Health covers all hospital visits including emergency. If your income is low enough, like mine is, the Sask Health Drug Plan will help cover your meds. For example: My Cellcept, which I take 3g per day, runs about $950.00. Because I am approved to take this drug under the Sask Drug Plan and have 96% coverage under the plan I only pay about $38.00 per month which is far more affordable. My income last year was about $12,000.00, so at $950.00 per month I would be broke. We in Saskatchewan don't have to pay anything for our health care, it is totally government funded.

They do cover Physio treatments here with a prescription from your GP but do not cover dental, massage, chiropractor, etc.

Doug
08-14-2009, 02:35 PM
Your earlier posting pretty well covers it: arguments put up against adoption of your NHS are exactly the ones thrown out in the current US debate. If you can call it debate. Don't put too much weight on anything you hear. It's divided down party lines pretty much. Sour grapes from the Republicans, bad sell from the Democrats. While it seems a long way to health insurance reform (whatever form it takes) in the USA, President Obama actually has made it closer to a law of the land than earlier administrations. Senator Kennedy may yet live to see national health care in the USA.

I doubt any intelligent and informed American (there are a few) thinks British dental health is subpar. I'm not sure where that started. It's the same as the notion that British cuisine is a bit bland and always boiled: only ignorant people think that! I'm sure there are sufficient stereotypical views of Americans held by British people and other people around the world to match and cancel out those of Americans' ignorant views of people abroad. Maddening, to be sure. I hate to be cast among the stereotypes, and hope I always mind my P's & Q's when I am around people from other countries, never throwing out comments that reflect ignorant points of view.

I no longer watch the news on television as my primary source of information (especially Fox!) because of the distorted sense one has of the world in consequence. I don't think one can ever get a true sense of the world, but I do feel comfortable something will come out of Congress that reflects the best of other countries' NHSs in intent, and the worst of bureaucratic folly in execution. It'll take a few years to settle in, then even the Conservatives will be happy Gramma gets treatments until the husk dries up. It's a nasty scene just now. It feels like one of the worst of American campaign seasons with lies and distortions coming out of mouths all over the political spectrum. There are even campaign-like ads on television. :D

judy
08-14-2009, 05:26 PM
hi all,i come here and read but i have never post before.but since you all r talking about ins.i though this is a good time to tell my story...im 57 and have no ins.i go to a free clinic.i have diabetes.and for 8yrs.i have skin problems real bad deviated septum bad head aches.diver diverticulitis.need surgery to take a foot of my colon out all my joints hurt.im so sick.but this is what i seen on one of my papers....the dr. had dn. wegeners granulomatosis.but didnt even tell me.and didnt give me any meds.i dont know what to do.without ins. i guess im just out of luck.

Jack
08-14-2009, 06:57 PM
Judy,
What a terrible situation!
Where do you live? Perhaps someone on here with local knowledge can offer some advice.

crackers
08-14-2009, 08:32 PM
first of all .judy,that is a horrific story.i hope somebody can advise you on a couse of action.secondly,jack,i also saw the news report you talk about.it makes me so angry when people tell downright lies about the nhs for political gain.from birth to death you are guaranteed free healthcare when it's needed.let's not forget every working person pays a national insurance contribution from their pay which helps to fund the nhs.why have people got a problem with their tax dollar going towards helping people who need to stay alive but have no problem at all when it's used to bail out greedy banks and bankers.if they spent a fraction of what they spend on defence and spent it on healthcare the problem would be solved.the nhs isn't perfect,anyone from the uk will tell you that,but if anyone tried to take it away there would be rioting in the streets.let the people who are spouting these ridiculous lies come over here and repeat them and see what happens.somehow i don't think they will.i hope our american friends get a healthcare system that looks after them when they need it without checking paperwork first.i wish you luck.
john.

crackers
08-14-2009, 11:48 PM
well since my last post the american healthcare issue has hit the headlines big style over here.all the tv news casts are showing a right wing MEP (member of european parliament) on fox news(surprise surprise)saying he wouldn't wish the nhs on anyone.his party leader has described him as "eccentric",i could think of a few more colourful adjectives to describe him.come the next elections i don't think he'll be an MEP anymore.
john.

Sangye
08-14-2009, 11:57 PM
I agree with everything that's been said. Decades ago, Americans somehow got it in their heads that health care doesn't belong in the same category as schooling, police, fired, roads, libraries, etc.... Even though there are so many problems with our public school system, no one would think of ending it and forcing people to pay for school privately. Yet when it comes to health care, they think it's a privilege.

Whether people support health care reform or not, the bottom line is that millions of Americans have no insurance, millions are going bankrupt because of medical bills, businesses are being forced to stop offering health insurance to employees due to unaffordable premiums, and Medicare is going bankrupt. We're on the Titanic, and too many people are rearranging chairs.

Sangye
08-14-2009, 11:58 PM
Judi, where do you live? Maybe I can help you.

Jack
08-15-2009, 12:00 AM
Yes, the press have smelled a story and are cranking up the heat as usual, getting all us Brits hopping up and down in anger. But as usual, they are only reporting the extremes of opinion. I'm sure there are many with more considered views in the USA, but we don't get to hear them in the news.

I could say a lot more about the position of the political parties in this country, but I would be straying into territory that is banned on this Forum.

judy
08-15-2009, 04:41 AM
sangye, im in virginia

Sangye
08-15-2009, 06:14 AM
Judy, the first thing to do is contact the doctor who wrote the dx of Wegener's. You need to know if it was actually diagnosed and which criteria s/he used to make the diagnosis. Then you have to ask why this was never shared with you. What s/he says will affect how you proceed from there (concerning Wegs treatment).

Do you receive state medical assistance?

Sangye
08-15-2009, 11:36 AM
I just read a great article on CNN.com about the British response to some Americans' criticism of the NHS. It was a wonderful article, and you can take comfort in knowing that 100% of the comments people left were very much pro-NHS. They came either from Brits or from Americans living in Britain, giving them credibility. Made my night.

germaine
08-15-2009, 01:04 PM
I was away when I started to hear about the resistance to the health care plan. I never wanted to talk about the benefits I have received from medicare in Canada because I felt sorry for those of you that have to pay so much more. I have been able to regularly see three specialists, as needed, an ENT specialist, an opthamologist, and the internist. My GP didn't know what was wrong, and when I went back to a clinic, I got an Xray and urine test, but only after I went to emergency as my problems weren't going away was I sent to a ENT specialist. I went Saturday morning, saw the specialist Monday. He got the ANCA test done as he suspected the problem. Results back to him Thursday, he called me AFTER hours and left me a message to come to his office first thing in the morning, Oct 31, I saw the internist Nov 6th. (I could go on.) A blood test every week for months. For all of this, all I pay is $96.00 per month. My province charges a monthly fee to help defer some of the cost of medicare, Most of the other provinces don't charge anything. Here those who do not have adequate income get it prorated down according to income, or free if need be. People do complain about delays sometime, but generally I am extremely grateful for the coverage I have gotten. They are trying to organize it better as medicare does take up a lot of tax dollars, but NOBODY in Canada ever seems to suggest we don't want it. In fact if you are a politician and suggest doing away with it, you can be pretty sure you will NEVER get elected. We all love our health care. Everyone is insured Germaine

germaine
08-15-2009, 01:10 PM
Hi Jolata, Why are you paying $680? My husband and I don't get any subsidy and we live in B. C. too. We pay $96.00 per month. Germaine

judy
08-15-2009, 01:24 PM
sangye, no i dont have state medical assistance.....and i cant get in touch with the dr until next week.it is just to hard. i dont feel like doing this any more.the dr. set up a sleep study.because i dont sleep.but that is so stupid, if i wasnt in so mush pain i could sleep.thanks for careing

Sangye
08-15-2009, 01:57 PM
Judy, I understand feeling like you can't do it anymore. It's overwhelming and so much worse when you're sick and constantly in pain. The thing is, Wegener's doesn't wait. You have to make yourself do whatever it takes to push things along.

For the past 3 years since I was diagnosed with Wegs, I've never had help from my family. I've had some help from friends with things like cleaning, but I've always had to manage my doctors, insurance, state assistance, disability, medications, finances, etc... by myself. No matter what shape I've been in. So please know I understand what it's like.

Wegener's can do some awful things to your body, and then you're really stuck. You don't have time to wait or waste. You can always page your doctor for help.

Why don't you have state medical assistance? I'm assuming you qualify? Are you on Disability?

jola57
08-16-2009, 01:23 AM
Judy please go to the doctor that diagnosed wegeners, if that is not possible take the paper with diagnosis and go to your regular doctor. You must be put on medication and even un US surley the government subsidizes treatments. You do not have to suffer so much if even a bit can be helped.

jola57
08-16-2009, 01:25 AM
Germaine, that is for two people for 4 months,, plus my university going son

Doug
08-16-2009, 05:21 AM
Judy- I can only underscore what everyone else has said: people diagnosed with WG don't have time to work out the details. You can contact your state department of health and human services:

http://www.dss.virginia.gov/benefit/faq_medassist.html

The link above takes you to a FAQ site, with links or directions to other resources. It appears Virginia has several programs that assist people with medical bills, and you'll need to read through these and other information that comes up when you enter "medical bill assistance" into the search box. Please, please, please go through this information and see what best fits you, do whatever it is you have to do to assure you can get hospital and medical care (including drugs, after you leave the hospital...!) If they can help people with AIDS and other chronic diseases, they surely can help you. I do suggest, though, that you print out information on Wegener's granulomatosis to attach with paperwork submitted so they, whatever agency or department you have to contact to apply for assistance, can quickly understand you are someone who needs help. FAST!

http://vasculitisfoundation.org/

Here's the Vasculitis Foundation website, which has the type of information you want to print out. Judy, make haste.

Doug
08-27-2009, 11:50 PM
I think we in America should have a moment of silence in memory of one of the US Senate's greatest proponents of national health care reform. Politically, he was left of me, but I feel Senator Ted Kennedy's ability to cross party lines to work with such unlikely people as Senator Orin Hatch of Utah (right of me!) and the late Senator Jesse Helms (extremely right of me) to come up with solutions that benefited all Americans is his legacy.

Sangye
08-27-2009, 11:52 PM
I agree. He was a mixed bag in his personal life, but made incredible improvements in the lives of millions. Not just Americans, but all over the world. I miss him already.

crackers
08-28-2009, 04:04 AM
as an outsider looking in on all things American he always struck me as a very rare bird indeed.a politician who tried his best for those less fortunate especially healthcare reform.he obviously wasn't in it for the money or personal gain.he had his problems in his private life but he will be missed as a politician.
john.

Doug
08-28-2009, 04:26 PM
I agree. He was a mixed bag in his personal life, but made incredible improvements in the lives of millions. Not just Americans, but all over the world. I miss him already.

I did a blogspot on his death.

Sangye
08-29-2009, 12:59 AM
That was an absolutely beautiful blog post, Doug. Thank you. :) I'm trying to write one myself today!

coffeelover
08-29-2009, 05:10 AM
Nice Blog on our health care reform specialist Doug! We need him more than ever right now

Doug
08-29-2009, 04:52 PM
That was an absolutely beautiful blog post, Doug. Thank you. :) I'm trying to write one myself today!

Thank you. I know yours will be as good as or better than mine. You have a nice touch! :)

Doug
08-29-2009, 04:55 PM
Nice Blog on our health care reform specialist Doug! We need him more than ever right now

Thank you. Teddy Kennedy was one for the ages.

coffeelover
08-30-2009, 03:29 AM
I just watched his funeral on CNN and cried the whole way through it. What an emotional baby I can be!

Sangye
08-30-2009, 03:35 AM
Today is one day I'm glad not to have tv-- I'd be crying the whole time, too.

Luce
08-30-2009, 03:42 AM
Blame it on the pred Lisa!

Doug
08-30-2009, 05:28 AM
Sangye-

I don't recall the date on your blog post on health care in America, but it seems it predated Kennedy's death.

Your discussion was cogent, well-reasoned, certainly convincing, and- this is directed at the rest of you reading this post!- worth reading.

If you never write that tribute to Teddy Kennedy, this blog post stands on its own as a tribute to him as it is what he saw decades ago as needed in America. I've copied your link to your blog below because I think it is that important it be read. (Pop quiz tomorrow!)

http://sweetnotalways.blogspot.com/

Doug
08-30-2009, 05:33 AM
p.s. I just read the Dear Ted posting. Made me cry, damn it. A beautiful posting, Sangye. Clearly, for me, it hit exactly the right spot.

Sangye
08-30-2009, 05:56 AM
Thanks, Doug. :)

Jack
09-13-2009, 05:44 PM
I noticed that in today's news they are reporting more protests against health care reform in the USA. It is all very hard for us to understand here in the UK. Anything to do with changes to our own state run system generates the opposite reaction with any cuts being strongly opposed and politicians promising more spending in order to buy votes.
I presume that the American protests are mainly from those who would have to pay more taxes? Don't they understand that in the long term they too would gain? The statistics show that health care spending in the US per head of population is two and a half times that spent in the UK. However, the US child mortality rate is higher!

crackers
09-13-2009, 07:49 PM
i'm with you jack.just can't understand the mindset of someone who would deny someone else,what is to me a basic human right,a fair healthcare system.whatever happened to "love thy neighbour".
john.

Sangye
09-14-2009, 01:49 AM
If anyone threatened to end Medicare (health care for seniors and some disabled), there'd be rioting in the streets. But many opponents of reform are saying they're protecting Medicare-- that reform would jeopardize it-- in the same breath as saying they don't want a "government-run" health care program! (Ummmm, like Medicare??) :eek:

Doug
09-14-2009, 02:57 PM
It's politics. You aren't the only ones who find it difficult to understand why people most likely to benefit from a policy are the ones screaming the most against it. Don't you think it ironic that the most conservative, anti-communist, anti-socialist
states in the USA have come to be known as the "red states"?:D

Sangye
09-15-2009, 06:20 AM
That observation totally made me chuckle, Doug.

Jack
09-15-2009, 06:27 AM
I didn't understand it. :confused:

Sangye
09-15-2009, 06:31 AM
It means there's nothing worse than calling an anti-communist "red" and yet they proudly refer to themselves as the "red states."

Jack
09-15-2009, 06:41 AM
I think the whole Reds Under the Beds thing faded out in the sixties here in Europe and most contries settled down into a comfortable shade of Pink! I guess that is still considered to be a bad thing in most of the US.

crackers
09-15-2009, 09:32 AM
mccarthy will never die i guess.
john

Doug
09-15-2009, 12:03 PM
Ignorance runs deep, my friend!

Doug
09-15-2009, 12:35 PM
I didn't understand it. :confused:

must email or else

Doug
09-15-2009, 12:49 PM
I think the whole Reds Under the Beds thing faded out in the sixties here in Europe and most contries settled down into a comfortable shade of Pink! I guess that is still considered to be a bad thing in most of the US.

Just in the Heartland, the Central Abyss. Oh, and maybe the Deep South.

Doug
09-15-2009, 12:50 PM
mccarthy will never die i guess.
john

Not as long as there is one ignorant person alive.:p

Jack
11-20-2009, 07:36 AM
Thought I would resurect this thread with an example of the level of drug rationing we have here in the UK.

The refusal of the NHS to supply the drug Nexavar is causing a good deal of outrage amongs some groups. It is a drug that can extend the life of a patient in the terminal stages of cancer by around 3 months, but costs £3000 per month. Other even more expensive drugs are supplied to patients with other illnesses, but generally the outcome is expected to be better than this.
There are lots of "how can you put a price on life?" headlines, but the fact is that resources are always finite and must be used to best effect.
See - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/6604974/Nices-decision-not-to-approve-the-liver-cancer-drug-Nexavar-is-painful-but-necessary.html

Personally, when my time comes, I don't think I'll be fighting for an extra month or two. Realist or defeatist?

Sangye
11-20-2009, 07:44 AM
Some people could be trying to stay alive for a wedding, a graduation, etc.... I couldn't say which option 'd choose at this point.

I do think it's a slippery slope if we start deciding who's worth a drug or not. This drug buys someone another 3 months. What if another drug buys them 6 months? A year? Where's the cut-off? What about drugs that only improve the quality of a terminally ill person's life but don't prolong it? Worth it? These are tough questions for any society.

Jack
11-20-2009, 08:03 AM
We have a committee called National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) who decide these things. They seldom go into the details of their decisions, but it is generally accepted that they start at a basic cost per year for any particular drug of £35,000. More than that and questions are definitely asked! But they also take into account the things you mention - quality of life, prognosis etc.
Considering their thankless task, I think they do a pretty good job. After all, for every patient that benefits from an expensive drug, somewhere others must have to do without.

germaine
11-20-2009, 02:19 PM
After watching my mothers slow death from cancer, I don't have much appetite for extending the end of life. I don't know what the answer is for others, but I'd prefer something quick, rather than prolonging the dregs of life.

You can color me a nice rosy pink in the political spectrum, unfortunately the 34 % of the population in Canada which has control of things is a very deep royal blue, which is the color of the ultra conservative/republican types here. Where does the red association come from? I noticed that in the last US election, it's the opposite here. Has it always been that way?

Doug
11-20-2009, 05:00 PM
I'm with you, Jack. Quality of life is one thing. Extending life just because it can be done is, in my mind, morbid. :) I think realist is the correct designation. Perhaps it comes of experiencing something of death and understanding it is a process we needn't fear. It's natural.

jola57
11-22-2009, 05:57 PM
This issue is too personal to be mandated by government. While working in the cancer clinic and watching my Dad pass away of multiple myeloma, I would think that in the end a quick and painless way is the way to go. However if the quality of life doesn't deteriorate, prolonging it to let say see you children grow up, wow that would be wonderful.

Jack
03-22-2010, 06:09 PM
So the vote went through. How will it affect you?
This is the report from the BBC - BBC News - US House passes key healthcare reform (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8579322.stm)
I found the three charts at the bottom of the page very interesting. How can America spend so much on medical care with such a poor result?

pberggren1
03-22-2010, 09:28 PM
Medical care is now, and has been for quite a few decades, big business in the world. There is no money in curing a disease but there sure is in treating it. And this new Obamacare bill will certainly give Big Brother a wider scope and line the pockets of many politicians and Obama's friends in the Medical industry, primarily drug companies.

So in short this is just one step further to the communistic society in which Marx had envisioned.

Jack
03-22-2010, 11:45 PM
Are you serious?
What is the system of health care used in Canada?

The universal health care systems operated in most European countries are jealously guarded by almost the entire population. Probably the most popular thing politicians ever did! And as a bonus, it seems to save us one hell of a lot of money and give better results than the system operated until now in the US.

JanW
03-23-2010, 12:05 AM
Here Jack, universal healthcare is made out to be the bogeyman that puts grandma to death because she can't get heart surgery for two years! That having been said, for anyone with a chronic and potentially delibitating disease such as WG, this bill is a huge step in the right direction, if for no other reason than you can't be denied coverage if you get sick or have a pre-existing condition, and there are no lifetime caps on beneifts. For someone like me, who may have to have several surgeries, each of which cost nearly six figures, I'd hit a $1 million lifetime benefit pretty quickly.

Sangye
03-23-2010, 12:20 AM
I stayed up til 12:30am watching the proceedings online while sharing tweets with fellow supporters, so that tells you how committed I was to getting this passed. This bill is not the best--there are major problems. No public option to create competition--big problem, but it can be added. (There is a strong movement for that) If they delayed it any longer, it wasn't going to make a stronger bill but a weaker one, and with the November mid-term elections so close, there was no way anyone was going to pass another bill. I don't think it's realistic to think that anything would have improved it with more time. It was this or nothing. For another century.

We know that 14,000 people have been losing insurance every day and that 45,000 a year die from lack of insurance. Personally I couldn't tell them to wait while we spend more time trying to get the perfect bill. This bill does fix some major problems with insurance right away--pre-existing clauses, etc.... The US is not going to go single-payer any day soon. It's just too big a step and the insurance companies and pharma has too big a hand in the pockets of our representatives. One thing at a time. The biggest thing the passage of this bill showed us all is the power of the people. Our representatives were bowing to pressure this year, but ordinary people fought to keep this alive.

Sangye
03-23-2010, 12:26 AM
I had a $3 million lifetime cap on my policy (the one I had to cancel this month). I can't tell you how much stress it caused me worrying about reaching that and losing insurance. Over 20 hospitalizations in less than 4 yrs, some of the most expensive drugs in use for years at a time, countless procedures, tests, etc.... I lived in constant terror of them canceling my policy because they found some loophole. Those of you in other countries can scarcely imagine what it's like to have Wegs and live like that, I'm sure.

Jack
03-23-2010, 12:38 AM
the bogeyman that puts grandma to death because she can't get heart surgery for two years!
Oddly, we actually have the opposite problem here and there is an ongoing debate over the right to die. Many people are kept going long after it would have been in their best interest to pass on and there must be agreement between doctors, relatives and if possible the patient before treatment can be withheld. There is also some vagueness in our laws concerning assisted suicide.

Lightwarrior
03-23-2010, 04:51 AM
I stayed up til 12:30am watching the proceedings online while sharing tweets with fellow supporters, so that tells you how committed I was to getting this passed. This bill is not the best--there are major problems. No public option to create competition--big problem, but it can be added. .

I also stayed up watching and am in total agreement with you. I made lots of phone calls and sent a lot of emails. I cried with joy when the vote count reached 216. It's not over though, we need to keep the heat on Senators, I am contacting all Senators (My Senators are John McCain and Jon Kyle, I contacted their offices but not much chance of them being supportive)

Sangye
03-23-2010, 05:36 AM
Yes, we still have a lot to fight for. I lived in AZ before MD. I do not envy your having to deal with those two. Stay strong!

pberggren1
03-23-2010, 06:51 AM
It is universal health care in Canada Jack.

Each province is slightly different though.

Sangye
03-23-2010, 07:20 AM
Phil, Pres. Obama is not the one with friends in the medical industry, especially not after this bill! Big pharm and insurance companies poured millions into opposing this bill every day for the past year. The bill doesn't go nearly far enough to thwart them, but it's a start.

I have a good friend whose son was born with a horrible disease--incurable, complex, awful. His dad has had to keep changing jobs because no one wanted to hire him and take on the cost of his son's insurance. The father is highly skilled and a hard-worker and has had to take jobs that don't pay well. The insurance companies have denied tons of necessary care and even told them their son is "not worth rehabilitating." Those very words. Imagine hearing that. ALL of that stops this year because of this bill. It's not a pefect bill, but just those changes make it a lifesaver for them.

crackers
03-23-2010, 12:10 PM
as the starter of this thread can i say how happy i am that at last my american friends have some improvement in the healthcare system.i hope in future years it will improve further.i believe the opposition to the reforms saw them as the thin end of the wedge.suddenly 30 million americans have access to healthcare that they didn't have before.if they ever try to remove that access they are faced with 30 million unhappy voters at election time.a few years ago an elderly american lady,who was on holiday over here,fell ill and ended up on the ward my wife works on.she was overwhelmed by care and consideration she received during her stay and by the fact that as an emergency admission she was treated immediately free of charge.a few weeks after the lady returned home my wife received a personal letter,addressed to her via the hospital,from the lady's family thanking her for caring for their mother during a very traumatic time.the system may not be perfect but the majority of the people who work in it are exceptional.i saw my rheumy last week and mentioned a couple of problems i was having.i see one specialist on thursday and another one in two weeks.i hope one day every american has the same level of care.
john

elephant
03-23-2010, 12:14 PM
I am hoping the the same John, my state wants to sue to having the Healthcare???? Hey I do live in SC, I should not be surprise!

Sangye
03-23-2010, 08:26 PM
If it's any consolation Elephant, know that the rest of us will be fighting hard for everyone's rights across the country. If any of us suffer, we all suffer.

John-- so good to see you! I miss your posts. Thanks for taking care of us visitors even when we don't have the good grace to return the favor. :(

Doug
03-28-2010, 04:12 PM
I also stayed up watching and am in total agreement with you. I made lots of phone calls and sent a lot of emails. I cried with joy when the vote count reached 216. It's not over though, we need to keep the heat on Senators, I am contacting all Senators (My Senators are John McCain and Jon Kyle, I contacted their offices but not much chance of them being supportive)

Oh dear! xx

germaine
03-28-2010, 05:00 PM
Are you serious?
What is the system of health care used in Canada?

The universal health care systems operated in most European countries are jealously guarded by almost the entire population. Probably the most popular thing politicians ever did! And as a bonus, it seems to save us one hell of a lot of money and give better results than the system operated until now in the US.

I am pretty happy with the system we have in Canada. There is gripping about it at various times, but when I think of all the tests and specialists I've seen since I've gotten sick, all covered for by my monthly premium, which if I was too poor to pay would not even have to be paid, I am very, very grateful. Everyone gets taken care of.

Our drugs are rather pricey. Our second last right wing Prime minister made some agreement with the big drug companies. It is amazing how much influence the corporations can have by spreding around enough money to influence enough ignorant people, or simply buying the politicians. I find it mind bending the way some people are protesting the Health Care Bill. It is like saying fresh air is bad. How can you not be willing to have all your fellow citizens looked after?

Sangye
03-29-2010, 12:24 AM
[QUOTE=germaine;13163. How can you not be willing to have all your fellow citizens looked after?[/QUOTE]
*sigh* I know. :(

Jack
03-31-2010, 01:16 AM
What about care of the elderly?

In the UK your medical needs are all covered for "free" by the NHS, but if you become old and infirm you must pay for your own care needs. This includes such things as help with cooking, washing, dressing or even the cost of staying in a residential home. You can get these things paid for by the taxpayer only when you have no money of your own left and this includes the sale of your house.

We have an election coming up and all the parties want to offer full payment for care of the elderly as a policy, but can't decide (or won't say!) how it is to be funded. Every suggestion is greeted with howls of protest from the opposition parties.

Sangye
03-31-2010, 01:26 AM
Wow-- we are so behind.... We offer nothing like that for our elderly and I can't even imagine such a proposal. Kudos to you folks for taking care of each other. :)