Japanese Water Filtration

[TOBEY32]

It's a water filtering machine a friend has: Kangen Water. The machine itself had another name on it which I forget. It's known to be beneficial for many ailments. It costs approx $4K, though cheaper versions are available. Maybe the $4K model is the "rolls royce". Don't know right now when I'd ever be able to purchase one. He sent me home w/ a few gallons of it to try and swears by the possible results.

Are you familiar w/ it or something similar - and your results?

David

[Dirty Don]

Don't know about Kangen water, but, if you're interested, I have some nice snake oil and a bridge in Brooklyn for sale:cool1:

[Dryhill]

And I thought my water utility bill was high! David, I hope the machine is the Rolls Royce, Farrari and Porche model.

Jim

[pberggren1]

Water is 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen. Nothing more.

[TOBEY32]

Gee, guys - don't mince words. Tell me how ya really feel...

[TOBEY32]

I'll pass it on. We'll see who laughs last!

[pberggren1]

That machine is a waste of money. Just get good RO water. You can even get a good RO system for your home for about 300 or less maybe. But you should have a water softener as well.

[annekat]

What is RO water, Phil?

[Dirty Don]

RO is reverse osmosis filtering process...right now, it's the best there is in home filtering of water. All that bottled water...well, it's mostly RO water. And having a soft water system adds to that...is what it is. As Phil noted, it's much cheaper and as safe and as good as it gets...no laughing...is what it is.

[annekat]

Thanks, Don. I think I actually have a small RO filter that I used to have hooked up to my kitchen tap. But when it comes down to it, I don't drink my tap water because it comes from a very shallow hand dug well that I don't feel is sufficiently sanitary or safe for drinking. So I get water in bottles from a public artesian well downtown which is tested regularly. Olympia is famous for it's artesian springs.... Olympia Beer, It's the Water, etc. On the other hand, I have acquired an ultraviolet water purification system, I just have to figure out how and where to to install it... then I should be able to drink the water and install the RO filter and feel pretty safe.

[Dirty Don]

OMG, Olympia beer? Stepdad used to drink it all the time, it was cheap, and I tasted it...yuk! Then again, I don't like beer and I don't drink anyway! LOL...but I'd go for the artesian spring!! Hehe!

I've researched all kinds of purification/softener systems...UV ones are an improvement...along with the RO...it will be better. We use salt system, they are much improved and don't use as much salt as the old ones...still not sold on those either...I grew up on pure lake water in Portland...rotted my teeth, but tasted darn good...could drink from the tap!

[annekat]

OMG, Olympia beer? Stepdad used to drink it all the time, it was cheap, and I tasted it...yuk! Then again, I don't like beer and I don't drink anyway! LOL...but I'd go for the artesian spring!! Hehe!

I've researched all kinds of purification/softener systems...UV ones are an improvement...along with the RO...it will be better. We use salt system, they are much improved and don't use as much salt as the old ones...still not sold on those either...I grew up on pure lake water in Portland...rotted my teeth, but tasted darn good...could drink from the tap! Yeah, my parents drank Oly beer, and I've been known to drink it before the days of microbreweries and other good beer. They still make Olympia, but somewhere else, I think it's now owned by one of the big beer companies. I don't see it much in the stores. I think the only reason people buy the cheap beers now is because they want to drink a lot of them. I don't drink it much and when I do can only handle one in a day. So if I buy it, I buy the better stuff.

As for the artesian well water, it tastes great, and half the town goes there to fill up bottles even if they can drink their tap water. Still, I'd like to be able to drink my own. I got a small UV system in lieu of rent from a delinquent tenant, but it has yet to be installed and is one of those things that keeps being put off because of the decisions that will be involved in doing it- where to put it, etc.... everything is funky at my house, so nothing is clear-cut.

As for water-softening with salt, that confuses me... we did that in Davis, CA, where the water was extremely hard, and there was always a scum on the water which I don't know if was from the softener or the water itself. Here, I didn't think the water would be hard, but there are still mineral deposits on things, though nowhere near as bad as in Davis. I'm just not sure where the softening enters into the water being more drinkable, because ours in Davis was not great tasting at all. I seem to remember it was supposed to make things easier to wash and such. Of course, that was 30-40 years ago and I'm sure the systems have been improved upon.

I'm curious, what was in the lake water in Portland that rotted your teeth?

[Dirty Don]

everything is funky at my house, so nothing is clear-cut.

As for water-softening with salt, that confuses me... we did that in Davis, CA, where the water was extremely hard, and there was always a scum on the water which I don't know if was from the softener or the water itself. Here, I didn't think the water would be hard, but there are still mineral deposits on things, though nowhere near as bad as in Davis. I'm just not sure where the softening enters into the water being more drinkable, because ours in Davis was not great tasting at all. I seem to remember it was supposed to make things easier to wash and such. Of course, that was 30-40 years ago and I'm sure the systems have been improved upon.

I'm curious, what was in the lake water in Portland that rotted your teeth?

You just need a good plumber, doesn't take a lot of room to have a UV system put in. Try to put it in an accessible place nearest the inflow to your house water.

We live in the desert near Phoenix, so the water is the worst. Better than LA, but still not tasty enough to drink from the tap. The softener doesn't change the taste that much, it's meant to get rid of the gunk that you were talking about...it's not 100%, but showers and dishes are much better, and if it wasn't so hot here, it could be consumed from the tap - not everyone has access to purification systems...

As for the lake water...NOTHING was in it...good old mountain water off Mt Hood!!! LOL...nothing for the health of teeth, etc. That has long since changed, as the government, for the betterment of the people of course, has added fluoride and other chemicals to the Bull Run Reservoir water...so be it. Still was awfully good...but didn't do much for the teeth! LOL

[annekat]

No, Don, it shouldn't take much room, but it is still hard to figure out where to put the UV filter because my house is so small.... under the house would be good except the instructions say to keep it at 33 degrees or above and there are bound to be exceptions to that under there... maybe I could enclose it in an insulated structure.

I just wondered why people were recommending water softeners in conjunction with RO filters when they are two different things... maybe to keep the sediments from gunking up the RO filter? I understand the RO filter doesn't purify the water as far as germs, but filters out minerals and whatever else? I probably wouldn't go so far as to install a water softener here, since I don't think it's that bad..

I wonder what pollutants from the air could have been in the Mt. Hood water?. Regarding flouride, that is a controversial subject.... I have nothing against it and certainly use flouride toothpastes, but there is none in my water, as I have a private, primitive well, and there is none in the artesian spring water in Olympia. I imagine it is in the city water but don't know for sure. My mother was very pro-flouride and I remember back around 1960 she actively campaigned for it in Mill Valley, CA., where we lived for a couple of years. I don't know what came of that. But for some reason, that subject is really volatile for some anti-flouride people... I knew of one in Davis who wouldn't even associate with her in a completely unrelated way, knowing her position on that. I guess I don't know enough about it but generally accept that it is OK.

[Sangye]

David, if it were me I'd plunk that $4,000 into trips to a vasculitis center for proper care. Get 5 gallon jugs and fill them with RO water at a health food store for $1 each.

[TOBEY32]

Is RO beneficial for different ailments besides just being better drinking water? That is the claim with this particular filtration system. I'm gonna see if I feel any difference after drinking what he gave me. I'm scheduled for lab in a week, so the timing is good.

[annekat]

Is RO beneficial for different ailments besides just being better drinking water? That is the claim with this particular filtration system. I'm gonna see if I feel any difference after drinking what he gave me. I'm scheduled for lab in a week, so the timing is good. I don't remember hearing that RO water was good for any particular ailments. I've heard of kangen water but really know nothing about it so have no opinion as to the validity of what they claim. Some people obviously believe there is something to it.

[pberggren1]

Nope, water is water. And RO filtration is the best way to go. Just go and get 5 gallon jugs, prob much easier.

[Dirty Don]

Nope, water is water. And RO filtration is the best way to go. Just go and get 5 gallon jugs, prob much easier.

And cheaper...$4000? Really?!?!

[drz]

I don't remember hearing that RO water was good for any particular ailments. I've heard of kangen water but really know nothing about it so have no opinion as to the validity of what they claim. Some people obviously believe there is something to it.


Any alternative treatment, medical device, or new drug will have advocates singing it's praises if it is supposed to help. This is a well known fact of human behavior due to the placebo effect. Like wise any drug or treatment that we expect to have negative side effects will result in claims of many problems due to the nocebo effect.

One of the problems with trying to investigate whether any health claim has any real value or actual effectiveness is how to control for these variables along with the Hawthorne effect. That is why new drugs generally have to go through a controlled double blind study so no one knows who is getting what drug, no drug, or placebo drug.

Our culture often determines our expectations so healers in different cultures often have very different approaches which might not work in another culture where people lack faith in the treatment. Don't under estimate the strength of the placebo effects as it can be very dramatic and powerful but unfortunately this also leads to many people singing the praises with many testimonials for various alternative treatments that are unproven by any valid scientific studies.

Thus many people might actually be helped by a bogus treatment or even a health scam that is unproven by any objective measure, but others may be harmed by the delay in getting a treatment that might be more effective.