I need your help interpreting symptoms!!

[KathyB]

Hi all -- Over the holidays I was diagnosed with drug-induced hepatitis (proven thru liver enzyme tests/bloodwork). Then a week ago I had the same symptoms -- wrenching pain in the area under my ribs around my sides and in my back. This "spell" lasted about 4 hrs and subsided with pain Rx, rest, and a heating pad. Then on Saturday I started with the back pain and sensitive stomach area, took a couple of Tylenol PM and went to bed. I woke up about 2 a.m. in the same pain I mentioned above. Then I took the Rx pain med and wrestled with the pain into the morning and took one more. I recognized the symptoms from before and contacted my infectious disease doc just in case I was now reacting to the new anti-fungal med I am taking (Posaconazole). So off we went to the ER and tests. Liver function was normal as was chest Xray and abdominal CT scan (looking for stones, infections, etc). My WBC was up to 12.0 and creatinine started creeping up again to 1.72 (from 1.4 a week ago). So after 11 hrs in ER, no answers. However, a number of things were ruled out.

The question for you all is--has anyone experienced these symptoms and know why or what they are about? Could it be caused by tapering of prednisone? I have been on 10 mg since January 4 with next taper scheduled for Feb 1. Or could it be WG rearing its ugly head? It'll be six months at end of February since Rtx treatment. I'm scheduled for next round at the beginning of March. I'm not on any maintenance meds for WG. I have an appt with my GP today and then follow up appts this week back with WG docs at MCV. My infectious disease doc was monitoring me all day while in ER and called it's an "enigma". Can anyone help?

[Psyborg]

Have they checked your Gallbladder? That is in that same area and can create the pain you describe. It also closely works with the liver, and at least in my case seemed to have been affected by my liver issues. Mine was never diagnosed until I had a nuclear medicine scan (Hida Scan). They told me mine was fine repeatedly based on ultrasounds, only to discover it had ruptured and scarred itself off when they finally did surgery based on that scan.

[KathyB]

Gall bladder was an original thought in my first go round in December. Based on CT scan, there are no gall stones so that idea was dropped. I know zip about gall bladder, though!

[Sangye]

Gall bladder. You don't have to have stones to have inflammation in it. I suggest you avoid taking Tylenol if it happens again-- very toxic to the liver. You can add some beets (juice, whole beet in any form, or beet juice tablets) to your diet on a regular basis. This thins the bile and allows the GB to drain more easily. When the bile gets sludgy it inflames the GB. If it remains sludgy it forms gallstones over time.

If the attacks persist despite adding beets to your diet I suggest seeing a holistic doctor for other natural remedies. There are many ways to heal the GB.

Note: Stop taking beets a few days before doing labs. It can give a false positive for blood in the urine.

[KathyB]

Interesting, Sangye! Yes, I totally understand re Tylenol. My doc cleared me to take sporadically since my liver enzymes were normal again. But it's probably not worth the risk and didn't help anyway! I'll research gall bladder more. I also was looking at pancreas issues, but the blood work doesn't bear this out. Want to hear more!

KB

[Al]

Gall bladder. You don't have to have stones to have inflammation in it. I suggest you avoid taking Tylenol if it happens again-- very toxic to the liver. You can add some beets (juice, whole beet in any form, or beet juice tablets) to your diet on a regular basis. This thins the bile and allows the GB to drain more easily. When the bile gets sludgy it inflames the GB. If it remains sludgy it forms gallstones over time.
Sangye, you are a trove of wondrous information. I had never heard that about beets. I'm the chief chef in our house, but I never fix beets, because I don't like them. Now, my wife craves beets, but she has had to get her fix elsewhere. As it happens, she regularly has digestive problems after a fatty meal. I suspect this to be gall bladder related. I guess I will learn more about beet prep. Thanks!

Al

[Al]

Kathy, it does sound likely that there is a gall bladder issue. But keep in mind that the higher WBC and creatinine levels indicate possible infection and/or inflammation. In all cases, I thonk your Wegs doc needs to be informed.

Al

[Psyborg]

Gall bladder was an original thought in my first go round in December. Based on CT scan, there are no gall stones so that idea was dropped. I know zip about gall bladder, though!

I had no discernable gall stones or anything of the sort, it seriously was only the Hida scan that showed anything going on. And I had a completely destroyed and full of sludge gall bladder.

[Dryhill]

You can add some beets (juice, whole beet in any form, or beet juice tablets) to your diet on a regular basis. This thins the bile and allows the GB to drain more easily. When the bile gets sludgy it inflames the GB. If it remains sludgy it forms gallstones over time.

Sangye what are beets? Are they what we in the UK call beetroot, a round tuber that is a dark red/purple in colour, cooked and then normally eaten cold? If so they are also very good for lowering blood pressure and Al bad on you they are wonderful and you can tell your wife I think she has grounds for divorce on grounds of culinery cruelty.

Jim

[Sangye]

Sangye, you are a trove of wondrous information. I had never heard that about beets. I'm the chief chef in our house, but I never fix beets, because I don't like them. Now, my wife craves beets, but she has had to get her fix elsewhere. As it happens, she regularly has digestive problems after a fatty meal. I suspect this to be gall bladder related. I guess I will learn more about beet prep. Thanks!

Al
Have her eat some beets before eating the rest of a fatty meal. Maybe beets on a salad or something. Even canned or pickled beets work great. I detest beets but take beet juice tablets for a finicky GB.

[Sangye]

I had no discernable gall stones or anything of the sort, it seriously was only the Hida scan that showed anything going on. And I had a completely destroyed and full of sludge gall bladder.

Yup, that's common. The GB is almost as sneaky as the Wegs dog.

[Sangye]

Sangye what are beets? Are they what we in the UK call beetroot, a round tuber that is a dark red/purple in colour, cooked and then normally eaten cold? If so they are also very good for lowering blood pressure and Al bad on you they are wonderful and you can tell your wife I think she has grounds for divorce on grounds of culinery cruelty.

Jim


LOL Yes Jim, beetroots are the same thing as beets. I didn't realize you Brits called them something different. Why don't you call potatoes "potatoroot?" :flapper:

[Al]

Sangye what are beets? Are they what we in the UK call beetroot, a round tuber that is a dark red/purple in colour, cooked and then normally eaten cold? If so they are also very good for lowering blood pressure and Al bad on you they are wonderful and you can tell your wife I think she has grounds for divorce on grounds of culinery cruelty.

Jim


All right, Jim, you've shamed me, even if I can't quite believe that beets are as wonderful as you say. Stiil, I'll look up all information in beet salads--just as soon as wikipedia comes back on line, The fact that given all my assorted quirks and culinary (and other) indiscretions my wife still hangs out with me after all this time, suggests that my wife wouldn't leave me over some stupid root, but I will have to say that she was impressed that you and Sangye will have gotten me to do something she couldn't in 41 years....

Al

[Psyborg]

I must say I'm guilty of disliking beets...my mom says even as a baby I would spit out beets. Maybe that was why I had gall bladder issues :confused::tongue:

[Al]

I must say I'm guilty of disliking beets...my mom says even as a baby I would spit out beets. Maybe that was why I had gall bladder issues :confused::tongue:

I'll let you know, Bob, if I come up with something edible to a confirmed miso-beetist.

Al

[mishb]

I had no discernable gall stones or anything of the sort, it seriously was only the Hida scan that showed anything going on. And I had a completely destroyed and full of sludge gall bladder.

Hi Kathy, Gallbladder was my first thought also.

My daughter had the exact type of pains for a few months before her 18th birthday.
It got so bad that we went to the A&E and they found that she did not have any stones but what they found in the scan was sludge.
Her blood test results went through the roof in regards to her liver and also her bile ducts, and the doctors were very worried about her.
We found out later (after the gallbladder was removed) that it was actually the pain killers (codeine) and also the nexium that she was given to help relieve the stomach spasms that caused her WBC and LFT's to be sky high.

In then end, when the gallbladder was removed, they actually found that the sludge was not a big problem after all but it was something under the gallbladder called the sphincter of oddi and it became inflammed with the pain killers....... no pain killers (codeine based ones) for her equals no stomach pain and normal blood test results.

All very interesting.

And I love beetroots ...... in sandwiches, salads, etc. It is very good for the blood pressure ....... but aside from that, I think they are yummy

[KathyB]

I LOVE beets and have been a veggie lover (even spinach!) since I was a child (to the angst of all my brothers and sisters as I gained favor the dinner table each night as a "good girl" who ate all her vegetables!).

It has been interesting to hear your stories and will use the info when I see my doc on Friday. I saw my GP yesterday and she mentioned a possible issue with the meds creating an ulcer and increasing the Nexium to twice daily and gauge any improvement. I have a hiatel hernia and in 2010 had an endoscopy. GI doc said all was ok at that time. I think my docs are going to refer me to a GI in their group at MCV for evaluation.

Another question--what has been the frequency and length of the attacks??

[elephant]

Kathy, I think it may be your wegeners acting up or a sluggish gallbladder. I was told by a general surgeon usually the sluggish gallbladders are the most annoying and painful. Hida scan will catch the gallbladder in the act. You should get a hold of your Wegs doctor. Good luck.

[KathyB]

Was ready to go to doc today then his office called and rescheduled for Monday morning. Hoping this weekend is quiet ... A friend's hubby had the GB sludge issue with no rise in liver enzyme numbers until it had started rupturing and leaking. They symptoms kept coming and going and mimicked mine. I keep thinking it's GB related. Still concerned it may be WG, too. I also got my GI records (including negative result for endoscopy in June 2010) and will probably connect with a new gastroenterologist at MCV to keep everything together. Praying for answers!

[Dryhill]

LOL Yes Jim, beetroots are the same thing as beets. I didn't realize you Brits called them something different. Why don't you call potatoes "potatoroot?" :flapper:

Sangye, I will pass on your suggestion to some marketing people I know, I am sure that they will love the idea of a name change for the humble and cheap spud (potatoe). With clever advertising I am sure they will be able to convince us that they have come up with a brand new food product that is essential for our health, but it will cost four times as much as the potatoe.

Al, well I have done something right for once.

[Al]

....Al, well I have done something right for once.



I'll say, Jim. Here's what I came up with: I roasted those roots after slathering them with olive oil, Then made a salad of spinach, red lettuce, and arugula, added some pear slices, walnut bits, and goat cheese. After the beets cooled, I skinned and sliced them, and put the slices on top of the greens. Then I washed my hands, which were quite purple, and served up the onion soup to go with the salad. Big hit. Still don't like beets myself, but I'll say that you know how to handle women, my friend....

Al

[mishb]

I'll say, Jim. Here's what I came up with: I roasted those roots after slathering them with olive oil, Then made a salad of spinach, red lettuce, and arugula, added some pear slices, walnut bits, and goat cheese. After the beets cooled, I skinned and sliced them, and put the slices on top of the greens. Then I washed my hands, which were quite purple, and served up the onion soup to go with the salad. Big hit. Still don't like beets myself, but I'll say that you know how to handle women, my friend....

Al

I've cooked them a few times over the years Al, but the hands do go very purple.
Thankfully we have them already prepared in cans, from the supermarket (whole or sliced) and are way easier to add to salads or sandwiches.
Can't you purchased beetroot in cans???

[delorisdoe]

My mom pickled a bunch of beets and then proceeded to eat a jar for dinner. The next day she went to work and started to pee what she thought was blood. Always the drama queen she left work early due to illness, went home googled red blood, figured out she was most likely dying. She cried for aproximately an hour or so. At this point she decided to drown her sorrows in another jar of beets. She then googled what could happen to your pee if you eat too many beets. My mother, the drama queen.

[Al]

I've cooked them a few times over the years Al, but the hands do go very purple.
Thankfully we have them already prepared in cans, from the supermarket (whole or sliced) and are way easier to add to salads or sandwiches.
Can't you purchased beetroot in cans???
Yes. Michelle, the rasty roots can be found in cans. But frankly, I do cans only as a last resort. Quirk of mine, I suppose, but when I have food, I prefer actual food, not something canned, boxed, or otherwise manufactured: chopped, measured, packed, and sanitized for my convenience. I enjoy learning the physics of the process, knowing what zigs when you zag. I think this is the same reason I still drive a stick shift car: I want to feel how the vehicle operates in its full context. Of course, there is a limit to this. When I built my house, I left most of the work to real carpenters, but I did pound some nails myself, and i regularly hung out with the crew to get a feel for what the were doing and a real sense of how the house was put together. And, at the hospital and during other medical procedures, I made them go through full detail before (and after) the action; if I didn't understand it, it wasn't going to happen. Hey, I even watched the video during the colonoscopy. (Can I talk about food prep and colon testing in the same post?) Anyway, now you know my position on beets, construction, driving, gut checks, and on cans....

Al

[Al]

My mom pickled a bunch of beets and then proceeded to eat a jar for dinner. The next day she went to work and started to pee what she thought was blood. Always the drama queen she left work early due to illness, went home googled red blood, figured out she was most likely dying. She cried for aproximately an hour or so. At this point she decided to drown her sorrows in another jar of beets. She then googled what could happen to your pee if you eat too many beets. My mother, the drama queen.
Good story, Leigh! So your mother found out she really was dye-ing. Those beets are really colorful, I'll give them that....

Al

[delorisdoe]

I am with you on that Al. I hate beets. I dont get what people like about them. yuck.

[mishb]

Yes. Michelle, the rasty roots can be found in cans. But frankly, I do cans only as a last resort. Quirk of mine, I suppose, but when I have food, I prefer actual food, not something canned, boxed, or otherwise manufactured: chopped, measured, packed, and sanitized for my convenience. I enjoy learning the physics of the process, knowing what zigs when you zag. I think this is the same reason I still drive a stick shift car: I want to feel how the vehicle operates in its full context. Of course, there is a limit to this. When I built my house, I left most of the work to real carpenters, but I did pound some nails myself, and i regularly hung out with the crew to get a feel for what the were doing and a real sense of how the house was put together. And, at the hospital and during other medical procedures, I made them go through full detail before (and after) the action; if I didn't understand it, it wasn't going to happen. Hey, I even watched the video during the colonoscopy. (Can I talk about food prep and colon testing in the same post?) Anyway, now you know my position on beets, construction, driving, gut checks, and on cans....

Al

You are too good Al.
A Greek friend of mine once told me that the Greek call Australian's - 'Skippy Can Eaters'. Yes, I have to admit, canned food is pretty big over here.
I would really love to do it all myself but convenience has it the other way I'm afraid. We even have pre packed/cut salads, pre made stir fries etc etc (not in cans)

The way the arthritis is in my hands, I wouldn't be able to make it all myself anyway ..... I even struggle just to open the cans. :sad:

I'm pretty sure you can talk about food and the colon, but we have kind of gone off track from the Gall bladder

[Al]

....I'm pretty sure you can talk about food and the colon, but we have kind of gone off track from the Gall bladder

Dunno, Michelle. Don't you know that the shin bone is connected to the thigh bone sort of thing? The gall bladder and the colon are pretty close, come to think about it. Eating appropriated would be appreciated by both organs, I think. Gotta watch thos pre-packed foods. Some have enough salt to entice a cow to lick them.

Al