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pberggren1
03-30-2009, 06:18 PM
Hello everyone:

I was wondering if anyone else uses a Waterpik or other pulsitile irrigation device for irrigating and flushing out their sinuses. I’ve been using a Waterpik for about 5 years now and could not imagine living without it. Even though I am in remission I still have a large mucus production along with lots of crusting and bleeding in the sinuses. I irrigate 3-4 times in the morning and 2-3 times in the evenings. After irrigating I snort up Vaseline into my nostrils to help ease the dryness and crusting and bleeding. I highly recommend pulsitile irrigation even for people without sinus problems because it flushes away and bug or bacteria, etc that may be in the sinuses.

There are 2 well known ENT’s by the name of Dr. Robert S. Ivker and Dr. Murray Grossan.

Dr. Ivker has written a few books including Sinus Survival. He has a website: www.sinussurvival.com (http://www.sinussurvival.com/). Dr. Ivker promotes the SinuPulse system.

Dr. Grossan also has written books including The Sinus Cure. His website is: www.ent-consult.com (http://www.ent-consult.com/) and www.grossan.com (http://www.grossan.com/). Dr. Grossan promotes the Grossan Hydropulse system.

I suggest to anyone with sinus problems to Google these doctors or to visit these websites. Hopefully this will be some good information for some people out there.

Sincerely,
Phil Berggren
Swift Current, SK
Canada

Jack
03-30-2009, 10:36 PM
I had lots of sinus problems in the early days - massive nose bleeds, total blockage with crusting and a series of operations to try to fix it (this was before my diagnosis of Wegener's). I used to use a saline wash with a syringe and it was very effective indeed, but I know that many people don't get on well with the method.

If you still have sinus problems to the extent you describe, I would question whether you are in remission. One of the first improvements I noticed when I started treatment was to my nose and sinus problems. I now use it as one of the indicators that things might be going wrong again because I usually have little more than a runny nose these days.

Doug
03-30-2009, 11:54 PM
I agree with Jack. The bleeding and crusting were among the first symptoms to go during early treatment for me. It is possible, of course, to blow your nose too hard and rupture a vein, but I'd be concerned if you saw fresh and increased blood in your Kleenex more than a day.

Did a doctor recommend the Waterpik method? I think that tool, on the high setting, has enough force to damage vessels, especially if you started using the tool in the late active or earlier remission stage of your Wegener's, when your vascular system was healing. The pulsating water "gizmo" shown on Dr. Ivker's website looked like it had a lower pressure (larger irrigating tube) and specialized nozzles specifically designed for sinus flushing.

The websites look interesting, though!

Sangye
03-31-2009, 01:14 AM
Phil, Vaseline is petroleum jelly. Not ok to use internally (or externally, truth be told). It's quite toxic. Anything you put in your nose goes immediately into the bloodstream. There are safer alternatives.

One that will soften the crusting and even help heal is Ghee-- melt and put a few drops in each nostril, snort if you want. Very soothing. Good for anyone.

pberggren1
03-31-2009, 08:11 AM
Sangye:

What is Ghee?

Thanks for the replies.

Phil

Sangye
03-31-2009, 08:20 AM
Hi Phil,
Food-India.com - Ghee (Indian Clarified Butter) (http://www.food-india.com/ingredients/i001_i025/i007.htm)

coffeelover
04-01-2009, 12:11 AM
For those of us with sinus problems....you all have given some very useful information. thx! Each day I find there is less and less I really know about this disease and I thought I was so smart?
ha!
Lisa

Doug
04-01-2009, 12:54 AM
That's for sure! I haven't had sinus problems for a while, but that irrigator shown in Phil's note yesterday looks like it would be far preferable to a round of antibiotics.

Jack
04-01-2009, 03:25 AM
Just thought I would mention that you don't have to spend much money if you wish to try this out. You can use a Neti Pot which is available cheaply and a mix of warm water with a little salt and perhaps some baking powder in it. I found that the Neti Pot would not get through the crusting in my nose and had to resort to squirting the solution from a 50 ml syringe. Do this all over a wash basin, it can get a bit messy!

Doug
04-01-2009, 05:16 AM
As has been noted earlier, this thread has been quite a learning experience! I'd never heard of a Neti pot until Jack's posting. For that matter, until Phil brought up the whole business of nasal irrigation, I'd never thought of it as a therapy for one of those things that ails us.

I hope Sangye, though dealing with the loss of someone dear just now, still has time to read what's been posted of late and appreciates just how much she has influenced us to take a serious look at holistic approaches to WG! If I had a guess, I'd say she must be a (holistic) doctor of some sort because her advice takes on that tone and authority! (Thanks, my friend, for your contributions to this dialogue! Even though the topic is taboo, know that I pray in my way for you to manage your grief, WG, and all those things that get between you and your peace. Hope you don't mind. I can't help myself. :))

For those as ignorant as I was about Neti pots, there is an excellent short video on YouTube showing its use and exercises to use with it to maximize the benefits. Careful, though, there are several videos that are crude parodies of Neti pot use, too, by people who've not needed relief from sinus miseries, apparently! (p.s. One shows a guy using a long-spout watering pot. I confess,as a guy who likes growing things, that I am compelled to gp back and see how he does with it. I might learn how to water my plants without making such a mess.)

coffeelover
04-01-2009, 01:10 PM
I too have used the Neti Pot approach in the past. It is not pleasant so when I don't have to, I don't use it. I should though
lisa

Carol
04-03-2009, 10:37 AM
I have used this brand of sinus rinse. It consists of a soft bottle with a top with a hole. You buy the sachets and put in boiled water, lean over a sink and squirt the water up. I like to sniff the water half way through - it takes the water into different areas. This is a very gentle way of irrigating the sinuses. I tried mixing my own salt and bicarb mixture BUT the sachets are much easier on the delicate sinus tissues. They cost about 21cents over the internet. The initial kit consists of the bottle and about 50 satchets for about $16. To get the correct temperature I kept boiled water in a glass bottle in the fridge worked out a measure on the plastic bottle where I could add freshly boiled water to and get the exact same temperature all the time. EASY.
After my sinuses settled down it was the build up of crusty mucus in that flap of skin at the back of my throat. It was very irritating and seems to be a bit of an indicator of how I'm going.

pberggren1
04-03-2009, 01:40 PM
I have also used this Carol. I found it to be quite good. If I travel I take it with me just in case there is not an electrical outlet to use in the washroom.

coffeelover
04-04-2009, 01:23 AM
Carol,

Can you give me the website where you can get these sachets?
LIsa

Gail
04-14-2009, 12:36 PM
wow we are one and the same person !! I also have and do the very same as you and have done for years too. I hate my nose, it drives me mad. Some days are better than others. I've started using Nasonex - mometasone furoate to dry my sinus up and stop it dripping into the back of my throat and cause the terrible cough I have.....
Apart from that, I don't know what else I can do.

Doug
04-14-2009, 12:46 PM
I haven't tried any medical checks on the nasal business. I've reached a point, I guess, where it doesn't bother me so much as it trails behind me, and catches up with me when I speak! I guess I would seek medical treatment if there were any pain or breathing difficulties involved, but it's mostly a mild nuisance.

beanie
11-17-2009, 04:10 PM
Neil med makes an 8 oz. sinus rinse.it comes with packets of disolving salt or you can use regular household salt.i use it several times a day.I also use a steamer when i am using the sinus rinse.something i have noticed is if you stay on top of it and use it everyday even when you dont need it.that it makes a world of diffrence.Also neil med sells lubrication that you can use in your sinuses,keeps everything moist

elephant
11-17-2009, 11:15 PM
I use the Neil Med twice a day and the ENT has noticed! It really keeps the nasal passages clean, so crap isn't sitting there to breed infection. :)

Alysia
02-10-2015, 05:39 AM
Phil used to use his waterpik with sterile water. it was a bit scary to see for the first time. he put that noisy machine inside his nose and lots of water were running in and out and around and then he was blowing. he did it each time with about liter water.
when he was in the hospital, he blows to a bowl which we called aquarium, because that we called the stuff that was out of his nose - fishes. we called them so after the famous starfish that he posted on the boogers thread.... and then we were discussing the fishes, are they bloody, green, big, small, many. a talk only a weggie can enjoy and cherish.....

at his last weeks in the ICU he was too weak for irrigating and was afraid to take off the oxygen because his sats were dropping down to scary numbers, but he had crusting that disturb his breathing which was so hard already. we asked the docs for an ENT to come and clean his nose but that damn ICU docs forced him to try to irrigate instead of bringing an ENT. I can use some very bad words here now, thinking about that, I hate this damn hospital...
it was 4 days before he passed. THE Batman did it. he had to hold the oxygen in his mouth with the teeth and irrigate in bed. some stuff was out. not enough to make him feel better. enough to make the damn docs not to bring an ENT...
tears....
he didnt use vaseline or ghee after irrigating. he had bactroban ointment for cases when he was sore.
thanks Michelle for finding this thread and pointing to it on another thread.

nose rinses in that forum will never be the same without dr. Phil...
tears again....

drz
02-10-2015, 07:40 PM
The links to Dr Grossan contain some very good reference material too. I found this library very helpful even though it for one commercial product. I found many links and pages with a lot of good info on sinus infections, eustachian tube dysfunction, and our usual problems. I can't vouch for accuracy of the research studies or claims pushing their product but it still has a lot of good info I found helpful.

http://www.grossaninstitute.com/

Nasal Saline Sprays - The Additives May Be the Problem (http://ent-consult.com/salineadditives.html) was very informative to me.

I was skeptical about this quote below from this link:

Sinus Health and Neti Pot - Hydro Pulse (http://www.grossan.com/hpvsrest.html)

The pulsing action of the Hydo Pulse(TM) actually helps the body itself – stimulating the nasal sinus cilia at their normal pulsing rate, so they can keep protecting the body against irritants and contagions that cause disease. After use of the Hydro Pulse(TM), measurements show improved function of cilia, and the users feel better - which is what the Hydro Pulse is all about.

But after using my Grossan more I believe it may be accurate. I have notice that I now have some natural normal mucous movement at times coming from my nose and have had to start carrying kleenex and tissues to often use. I don't know if the copy cat machines or Water Pik machines have the same pulsing settings or create the same effect of improving normal cilia function

The one downside I found from reading more about the Grossan Hydropulse is that like many fine electrical or electronic products that had a good reputation, it is now made in China instead of Taiwan so it is much cheaper but the quality has gone down drastically so the machines now only last a few months and are generally regarded by many users as cheap junk. It seems they still work OK but only for a short period of time.

mishb
02-10-2015, 08:00 PM
he didnt use vaseline or ghee after irrigating. he had bactroban ointment for cases when he was sore.

nose rinses in that forum will never be the same without dr. Phil
.

I use bactroban as well, I have never used Vaseline or ghee

spiritscript
02-11-2015, 04:47 PM
Vaseline/Petroleum Jelly is dangerous to use. "If petroleum jelly gets into the lungs, it can cause lipid pneumonia. It won't happen if you apply it once in a while, but Dr. Dattner recommends not making a daily habit of it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/21/vaseline-petroleum-jelly_n_4136226.html



I use bactroban as well, I have never used Vaseline or ghee