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maria garcia
06-24-2011, 12:23 PM
Ok, Wegeners is an Auto Immune disorder which the small vessels get inflamed and prevent blood flow from reaching the organs. Can someone explain why the patient feels so week , why the body pains. the loose of muscles etc. After reading some stories here I see Wagner's affect more than organs.Ive read about deaf, why? Why the weight lost if the person is eating normally. Please help me understand this disease. Its so much more complicated!

pberggren1
06-24-2011, 04:09 PM
Wegs is one of the most complicated diseases ever.

The weakness can come from active Wegs that causes muscle loss and Wegs itself suppresses the immune system which is part of our strength overall as well. Weakness also comes from damage due to Wegs in the joints and muscles. And it can also come from antibiotics to treat infections along with Wegs and of course the immune suppressants to treat the Wegs itself. Prednisone also causes weakness and also suppresses the immune system.

The pain can come from infections, active Wegs causing inflamation, especially in the joints.

Muscle loss is caused by Wegs and Prednisone and some infections as well.

Wegs attacks the auditory nerve and a lot of time with active Wegs there is an infection as well and if the infection is in the middle ear it can cause fluid in the ear and cause conductive hearing loss. Wegs can also damage the bones in the middle ear and the cochlea.

I hope this helps you some but only a Wegs specialist can truely due your daughter justice.

Jack
06-24-2011, 09:35 PM
The root of the problem is that Wegener's causes inflammation in the same way that an infection would and this is why it is so easy to misdiagnose and treat with antibiotics.

So imagine that you have an infection of your sinuses. In fact, imagine that this infection has spread all through the plumbing in your head including ears and eyes. You can see that hearing loss, sinus pain and eye problems would not be unexpected. If you then go on to imagine the infection affecting joints, skin, kidneys, lungs etc. and it is no wonder that you end up in poor condition throughout and start to loose weight and lack energy. Your body just can't cope with this sort of attack!

maria garcia
06-24-2011, 11:37 PM
Wegs is one of the most complicated diseases ever.

The weakness can come from active Wegs that causes muscle loss and Wegs itself suppresses the immune system which is part of our strength overall as well. Weakness also comes from damage due to Wegs in the joints and muscles. And it can also come from antibiotics to treat infections along with Wegs and of course the immune suppressants to treat the Wegs itself. Prednisone also causes weakness and also suppresses the immune system.

The pain can come from infections, active Wegs causing inflamation, especially in the joints.

Muscle loss is caused by Wegs and Prednisone and some infections as well.

Wegs attacks the auditory nerve and a lot of time with active Wegs there is an infection as well and if the infection is in the middle ear it can cause fluid in the ear and cause conductive hearing loss. Wegs can also damage the bones in the middle ear and the cochlea.

I hope this helps you some but only a Wegs specialist can truely due your daughter justice.

If Wegeners supress your immune system then why take medication to suppress it more? I guess it attacks more than the small vessels.

Sangye
06-24-2011, 11:58 PM
Most of the above is correct, but I want to make sure a couple things are corrected.
1) Wegs does not damage muscles or directly cause muscle loss.
Wegs can cause nerve damage by affecting the blood flow to the nerve. Then, if the nerve isn't functioning properly that can lead to muscle atrophy. This might sound picky, but it's not. Some diseases cause direct muscle damage and Wegs is not one of them. Wegs doesn't always affect the nerves. Muscle loss before pred is usually due to inactivity. Many people are quite sick and/or in pain, and their muscles atrophy with disuse. Also, pred causes muscle loss directly. (It cause muscle loss and fat retention. It does the opposite of anabolic steroids that people take in sports.)

2) Wegs doesn't damage the joints.
Wegs can cause joint pain and inflammation, but it doesn't damage the joints. When the Wegs is treated the joint pain disappears. This is very important. We don't want people thinking Wegs is like RA, where the joints are severely damaged over time.

What causes fatigue? The body uses a lot of its resources to deal with a chronic illness. Also, pred causes adrenal weakness which directly causes fatigue. Many of the drugs have fatigue as a side effect. Chronic inflammation is very exhausting to the body. It requires a huge amount of energy.

Stephanie78
06-25-2011, 01:58 AM
If Wegeners supress your immune system then why take medication to suppress it more? I guess it attacks more than the small vessels.


The way Johns Drs. explained it was...The disease fights the immune system which supresses it. However to rid of it (meaning remission NOT curing) they have to basically destroy your immune system and fight it will a stronger drug (CTX being one)

We too "thought" that the disease harmed muscle. However the rheumotologist told us that since John was very muscular in his arms and legs (No fat) that when he got so weak and started losing weight, the muscle was the first to go (Since he had no fat to lose) Wegeners does cause inflammation which can cause stiffness and joint pain (John had/has that bad and sometimes not able to walk) but it is not where the disease is "destroying those areas" it is effects caused by other symptoms of the disease which can also be mistaken when it is actually side effects of medicines the person is on.
Right now John is horribly sick. We have to have someone watch him while I am at work and he is continuing to lose weight. I'm convinced that although it may be partly due to the disease the meds are more to blame at this point.
John had mainly sinus involvement to begin with , but due to improper treatment (for only 2 weeks) the disease progressed very quickly and he now has lung and kidney involvement. Due to the sinuses being attached to the ears and throat he has issues with both of those areas. He has lost some hearing in both ears and they ring all the time. He has lost strength in the back of his mouth (Tongue) and throat that keeps him from swallowing anything other then soft foods. Then there are times that when he swallows his body will heave (No nasuea) and he will vomit everything. This disease is the most confusing disease ever, even the doctors at UNC agreed with that.

It is a very well known fact on here that people are misdiagnosed for YEARS and mistreated. As a parent (Maria) you have to find your daughter help. If the one doctor does not want to test her GO TO ANOTHER ONE. My husband is proof that it doesn't take long to go down hill. Trust me. 2 months ago we went biking in the park He rode his bike for 3 miles. He loved going for walks around the community. He never had a sick day in 15 years! He never took meds other then a one a day vitamin. He ran for enjoyment/exercise (Not sure who in their right mind would enjoy running....LOL) And today he sits at my parents house while I am at work so my mom can care for him. He takes 11 pills a day and has a routine that takes 20 minutes for different things for his sinuses and ears and is having chemo treatments. He has lost over 40lbs in a 6 week period of time, his cheeks are sunken in, he is flushed all the time, his eyes are glassy, he doesn't talk, he can barely eat, he falls easily, he sleeps a lot but then complains that he doesn't sleep. When he goes to the bathroom he has to leave the door open in case he falls (Which he has) someone can get to him. He cries a lot..He is not the same person. This change happened within 2 weeks!!!!! Be your daughters advocate and FIND a dr who will help her. Get a biopsy to confirm she has WG. Please!

delorisdoe
06-25-2011, 06:53 AM
In the ten years I have had this disease I have never asked any doctor to explain it to me. As of right now I know more about wegners than I did before. thanks guys. lol

vdub
06-25-2011, 07:51 AM
This is a good thread. I hope more people add to it. I'm like Leigh in that I've really never known exactly what was going on, why it attacked where it did and what I can expect in the future. Part of that was because I was just more concerned with staying alive for the first 9 months or so. About 5 months ago, the focus shifted from "staying alive" to treatment. As most everyone else, I have done a lot of research, but not necessarily on wegs itself, but other aspects like side-effects of the many drugs and trying to figure out why I was feeling crappy (still haven't figured that out, btw).

I guess we all know it is a vasculitis disease, but why does it attack so many different areas and affect people so differently? Why is someone's toe toasted and mine is fine? Same with hearing.... While some people have gone deaf, my hearing is fine. I think one really common issue is the sinuses.... That one thing seems to crop up more than anything else....

I sure do love the internet.... If you can seperate good sources of info from bad, then it's a wealth of info....

maria garcia
06-25-2011, 08:34 AM
Tuesday it will be done. Im scarred to death but its a must! Your husband story has convinced me to find the truth.

maria garcia
06-25-2011, 08:55 AM
Auto immune supresants is given as the medication for Wegeners. If your immune system gets so suppresed then your going to get sick from something else. How long does usually a patient have to take the chemo? After the chemo is over do you usually go into remission for a long time?

pberggren1
06-25-2011, 10:16 AM
As far as cyclophosphamide goes the typical treatment time for that is 3 months but no longer than 6 months unless absolutely neccessary. But with azathioprine and methotrexate they can be used for much longer periods of time because they are much less toxic and are considered maintenance drugs.

Remissions vary greatly from patient to patient.

vdub
06-25-2011, 10:32 AM
How long does usually a patient have to take the chemo? After the chemo is over do you usually go into remission for a long time?
Yeap, like Phil said. I will add, tho, that while on one of the immuno-suppressants, you are much more susceptible to infection. I've been on mtx for 14 months and I try to avoid anyone who is sick or places where you are likely to get sick (nursing homes for instance). I might be in remission now, but won't know for a couple more weeks. If I am, then I will slowly taper off the mtx. The taper will take about 3 months. No one knows how long someone might stay in remission or what my trigger it to reappear. The disease is really strange and affects everyone differently.

marta
06-25-2011, 11:49 AM
Ok, Wegeners is an Auto Immune disorder which the small vessels get inflamed and prevent blood flow from reaching the organs. Can someone explain why the patient feels so week , why the body pains. the loose of muscles etc. After reading some stories here I see Wagner's affect more than organs.Ive read about deaf, why? Why the weight lost if the person is eating normally. Please help me understand this disease. Its so much more complicated!

I wanted to see what others say before I said something because I am going to guess at the answers from just experience and some of the stuff I learned in school many many many years ago.

I think the initial pain that we get when we first get the disease (before we start taking all the drugs post diagnosis) is the inflamatory response which is the normal body response to either trauma or a viral or bacteria infection. It's just that our immune system is confused and is responding to nothing real. Normally a headache is (be it primary or secondary) due to some issues with blood flow. In the case of migrane headaches it is a reduced blood flow to the cerebral cortex. Cluster headaches are also linked to altered blood flow in the head. And since one of the medications used to treat normal headaches is Ibuprofane - and anti inflamatory, the cause is at least partially an issue of inflamation. I don't think that Wegener's causes infections, it mimics an infection. This explains the many failed attempts of many of our doctors to treat us with numerous antibiotics before diagnosis. I think that most of our problems are primarily inflamatory, and secondarily the deposit of granulomas which impedes the effectiveness of whatever it has attached to and eventually destroys it and leaves behind useless scar tissue. The granuloma deposit is also an immune response to trauma (loosing healthy tissue is replaced with granulomas which in normal circumstanses eventually develops into new healthy tissue). That is the reason for the pain before diagnosis and why normally high doses of pred seem to relive the pain so quickly - pred = the world's best anti inflamatory.

As Sangye said, the body uses up a ton of energy trying to recover hense the weakness.

There are two main reasons for the deafness (I have one of them and Phil is an expert in the other). Mine is because of blocked eustachian tubes (inflamed and shut closed) thus creating a vacuum in my middle/inner ear cavity which sucks in fluid from adjoining cells and fills the cavity with fluid which prevents sound waves from reaching their final destination properly. I just had tubes put in three days ago and can now hear better than I have in the last six months. I was very very deaf until three days ago - little things I hear are putting a smile on my face today. Phils issue is sensory nerves. I think (and I could be speaking out of turn here) that his nerves were damaged from the disease, probably lack of blood supply to the nerves during active disease state. Phils is a lot tougher to deal with which is why he is going to give cochlear implants a try.


I also think that part of the reason that it affects us different and some people get ear issues while others don't, and the sinuses, and the lungs and the nerves, and kidneys, skin (also an organ) etc., etc., etc.... has to do with the natural variation within the human species. Wegener's affects a certain size of blood vessels - the really small ones, and there is a range of variation with almost every detail in the human body so why not the size of our blood vessels that lead to various organs....That's my theory, not sure how right it is.

Once we are diagnosed I think that usually the hospital stay and dealing with the disease when it's fully active drains a lot from the body. I was very very very strong before I got sick and the short time I spent in hospital (lung biopsy, new drug regimen, laying in bed and not doing much and eating the horrible hospital food) rendered me useless. It took weeks before I had enough strength to walk around the block. Taking a shower was THE chore of the day and sucked all of the energy I had saved up for the entire 24 hour period. I also continued to loose weight after the hospital for another two weeks, and ate like a horse when I got home and was popping the pred like it was going out of style. I didn't start to get the puffyness for at least two to three months after starting the treatment. The meds also suck out any of the good stuff (i.e. muscles) that you've built up over the years. So like Sangye said, more fat, less muscle - hence our super awesome Weggie look.

It is a crazy disease, but once we're on the meds and keep as safe as possible (without turning all Howard Hughes) from infections and other opportunistic invaders, we have a good chance of getting some semblance of normalcy back in our lives. I haven't gotten the full sense of normal, but I'm not giving up hope that it's possible. Getting my hearing back this week, and my sense of smell back in the last month, I am sure enjoying these seemingly insignificant sensory experiences, so baby steps forward.

One thing is for sure - this too shall pass.

pberggren1
06-25-2011, 03:49 PM
Thanks for this nice post Marta. But then again all your posts are nice.

I feel like punching someone in the face right now. The pred is really getting to me. The last couple of weeks the slightest thing sets me off. I wish I had a nice gun to let off some steam with. I know that would be good therapy for me. Or maybe some rope and a bridge and a...... LOL

Anyway, Marta is mostly right about my hearing loss.

When the Wegs first came along for me in 2003 my loss was conductive like Marta's and some nerve damage but to what extent we will never know for sure. I had 3 sets of ventilation tubes put in my ear drums with no success in the first year. My ENT said it was like digging in concrete. He aslo said that my eustachian tubes were most likely shot and not functioning due to damage from the Wegs like granulomas and scar tissue and inflamation.

Then in 2004 I was flaring and did not know it. I was on mtx at the time as well. I had 3 weird episodes like almost fainting and then coming to with less hearing in one ear or the other and increases tinnitus. By the third episode I was totally deaf in the left ear and my right ear had about 50% hearing left. My ENT said that it could be the Wegs that did this or the mtx or a combination of the both, but there is no way of knowing for sure.

Then in 2005 I got hearing aids and they helped a lot. I have what is called a Bi-Cross set up where the left hearing aid is a microphone with a transmitter that transmits the sound to the right hearing aid. I did fairly well with these up until December of 2010.

In December of 2010 an antibiotic I am taking wrecked my right hearing nerve completely and left me totally deaf in my right ear as well. But in March my ENT put another set of tubes in because the cochlear implant people said it looked like I have fluid in my ears and if that is the case then I cannot have cochlear implants. So he put the tubes in and 2 days later a bit of hearing came back but was gone again by the end of the month. The ENT said most of the loss was due to the Amikacin but that obviously there was some conductive loss as well but because the eustachian tubes are shot they do not allow normal air movement within the middle ear and cause the ear drum to cave in.

So this is where I sit now, completely deaf.

I see the cochlear implant surgeon on August 10. I hope that I will be able to get the implants. I have been communicating with a lady in town here that had both sides done back in 2007 with great success. So hearing her story gives me hope.

Sangye
06-26-2011, 01:08 AM
Stephanie, if you feel it's appropriate and you have the chance, would you be willing to post your last reply on this thread? I think it would really help newbies.
http://www.wegeners-granulomatosis.com/forum/general-wg-chat/986-what-newly-diagnosed-need-know.html

04-19-2013, 09:03 PM
I think this still is a good thread.
Every now and then the question pops up again.
What is Wegeners?

Well. most answers are right here...

renidrag
04-20-2013, 11:38 PM
It is good you brought this up as it seems people signing in are looking for info. Pay special attention to Sangye's post about What the Newly diagnosed need to know just above.

Barbara N
04-21-2013, 01:32 AM
That is one of the better descriptions I have ever gotten.

Barbara N
04-21-2013, 01:38 AM
Good luck with that Phil. I am seeing me ENT doctor in Madrid in May when I go to the ophthalmologist. Last time they said I wasn't a good candidate for the implant.

Barbara N
04-27-2013, 03:58 AM
I hope there isn't an exam afterwards because I don't think I have the whole thing figured out yet.You should all get together and put out and owners guide on how to let Wegener's share your body. We are lucky to find out so much here but there is still so much more everyone could add to It is so complicated especially if you are living in an area where WG is not well known. Moving is not always a possibility. I am still knew to this sight and everyday I am learning new things about my condition and hearing stories that affirm my belief that you can go into remission for a long time and the importance of staying strong, positive and healthy Good health to every one, Barbara

Rini
04-29-2013, 05:18 PM
Most of the above is correct, but I want to make sure a couple things are corrected.
1) Wegs does not damage muscles or directly cause muscle loss.
Wegs can cause nerve damage by affecting the blood flow to the nerve. Then, if the nerve isn't functioning properly that can lead to muscle atrophy. This might sound picky, but it's not. Some diseases cause direct muscle damage and Wegs is not one of them. Wegs doesn't always affect the nerves. Muscle loss before pred is usually due to inactivity. Many people are quite sick and/or in pain, and their muscles atrophy with disuse. Also, pred causes muscle loss directly. (It cause muscle loss and fat retention. It does the opposite of anabolic steroids that people take in sports.)

2) Wegs doesn't damage the joints.
Wegs can cause joint pain and inflammation, but it doesn't damage the joints. When the Wegs is treated the joint pain disappears. This is very important. We don't want people thinking Wegs is like RA, where the joints are severely damaged over time.

What causes fatigue? The body uses a lot of its resources to deal with a chronic illness. Also, pred causes adrenal weakness which directly causes fatigue. Many of the drugs have fatigue as a side effect. Chronic inflammation is very exhausting to the body. It requires a huge amount of energy.

this is interesting, why then, if i would consider myself mostly in remission (5mg pred, +METX) would i hae such screaming pain in my joints and core of my bones like legs? my inflammation should be down and IK in my face it most shorly is, even if im retaining some puff from pred

Dirty Don
04-29-2013, 11:13 PM
this is interesting, why then, if i would consider myself mostly in remission (5mg pred, +METX) would i hae such screaming pain in my joints and core of my bones like legs? my inflammation should be down and IK in my face it most shorly is, even if im retaining some puff from pred

You have some options here: 1. you're having a flare, 2. your pred needs a change, 3. you're having a withdrawal from recent pred reduction. That's about it, unless you've added something else to the pan...sorry...get better.

Barbara N
05-05-2013, 04:48 PM
My Orthopedic told me that wegeners damages the ligaments in the joints and that is what makes your joints hurt so much or even feel like they have dislocated for a short amount of time. Sometimes I really feel like my knee or shoulder, ankle etc are out of place usually during the night and I can't even move or use them then it just disappears If you have been treated for a long time I think there is a good possibility that all of the medication especially the anti-inflammatory ones you probably caused a lot of damage before you even knew you had WG

annekat
05-06-2013, 12:27 AM
I've always taken notice when Sangye or some other info source says that Wegs does not damage the joints in the way that RA does. If true, that is a good thing for us, but then I'm wondering, why are we feeling the pain if no damage is occurring? Barbara, your comment on ligament damage is the first I've heard, and I'm wondering if this is permanent damage. I know the joints and ligaments are related but am still confused. Anyone who can shed some more light on this, I'd appreciate it. What is really happening with Wegs joint pain?

drz
05-06-2013, 12:59 AM
I've always taken notice when Sangye or some other info source says that Wegs does not damage the joints in the way that RA does. If true, that is a good thing for us, but then I'm wondering, why are we feeling the pain if no damage is occurring? Barbara, your comment on ligament damage is the first I've heard, and I'm wondering if this is permanent damage. I know the joints and ligaments are related but am still confused. Anyone who can shed some more light on this, I'd appreciate it. What is really happening with Wegs joint pain?

My guess is the Wegs causing inflammation and swelling which creates the pain. But it is considered temporary unlike many types of arthritis where there is physical damage to the joints that will remain. In Wegs if the inflammation goes down or away so will the pain. The inflammation markers like CRP and SED rates might correlate with this pain.

Langford said this about GPA:

/http://www.rheumatology.org/Practice/Clinical/Patients/Diseases_And_Conditions/Granulomatosis_with_Polyangiitis_%28Wegener_s%29/

Barbara N
05-06-2013, 06:12 PM
Before I was diagnosed with Wegener's but I knew I had Rhodatarula. the doctors had no reason for my symptoms so they started me on cortisone and lots of other things. I think way to many antibiotics and when they didn't work even stronger, plus all of the anti-inflammatory medicine was killing my kidneys. I also cried a lot for no reason I could think of and lost a lot of weight very quickly and also had the same problem of saying I was tired all of the time but that I couldn't sleep. After a long period and after biopsies and all the tests I was started on predisone, heat medication, relaxants, muscle relaxants anti- depressants and sleeping pills. What a mess I was That time I stayed on the Pred treatment for over six months then slowly came down to just 5mg. I stayed on that for a long time and if I started to have a flare they would take me back up to 30mg for a few weeks and then bring me down again. I was in a continuous circle and there seemed no way out. After I started to ride again and do some experimenting on myself for about six months, I realized that I started to feel much better and the side effects of the medication was diminishing too so I decided on my own to stop all of my drugs. I didn't have doctors permission but I had told them and none of them tried to talk me out of it.Until September last year I was pain free, drug free and felt great. The doctors were getting interested. Now our special horse has gone lame and my friend with cancer and myself have both been going down hill fairly fast. We still do exercises on other horses but it isn't the same and the results aren't the same. I am training my horse to do this type of therapy while we anxiously wait to find another vaulting horse.. In the meantime my horse helps a lot and is learning quickly and I pray we go back into remission again. ANIMO, Barbara

05-07-2013, 07:45 AM
Anyone who can shed some more light on this, I'd appreciate it. What is really happening with Wegs joint pain?

I'm really interested too. Like drz says
But it is considered temporary unlike many types of arthritis where there is physical damage to the joints that will remain.

I would like to know if there is any scientific result on GPA-damage of joints and ligaments.
So far I haven't seen any, and my GPA docs couldn't answer most questions on this subject either, when I asked them over the past two years.
My specialist said my jointpain 'fitted the ANCA-pattern'.

drz
05-07-2013, 08:56 AM
I'm really interested too. Like drz says

I would like to know if there is any scientific result on GPA-damage of joints and ligaments.
So far I haven't seen any, and my GPA docs couldn't answer most questions on this subject either, when I asked them over the past two years.
My specialist said my jointpain 'fitted the ANCA-pattern'.

The reference links do note that arthritis often follows the Wegs inflammation of the joints and that could well cause lasting damage. We know the treatment meds also predispose us to a number of other complications and some of those side effects also seem long lasting. Jack often talked about how pred had ruined his body. CTX increases our risk of certain cancers. Loss of bone density is one issue many of us also have to deal with. And the list can get real long if we start to include everything but as long as it all helps keep me on the green side of the grass I am happy about it.

annekat
05-07-2013, 10:28 AM
The joint pain thing seems pretty mysterious and the docs don't seem to be able to say much about it. Maybe I'll PM Sangye some time and ask her again for her take on it, why she says there is no damage even though we feel pain. I think someone mentioned nerves earlier in this thread, maybe part of what we are feeling is nerve pain around the joints when they get inflamed. But I guess pain is always carried through nerves?

05-08-2013, 01:11 AM
But I guess pain is always carried through nerves?

I guess that is the case.
No nerves, no pain, lol.

Thanks for your answers so far.
Tomorrow I'm seeing my GP, next month a have an appointment at the vasculitis centre again.
I'll take the 'arthritis'-information with me...

annekat
05-08-2013, 02:31 AM
I guess that is the case.
No nerves, no pain, lol.

Thanks for your answers so far.
Tomorrow I'm seeing my GP, next month a have an appointment at the vasculitis centre again.
I'll take the 'arthritis'-information with me... I guess I was thinking that it could be nerve inflammation and damage we were feeling, as we sometimes do in our feet and hands. But maybe more prominent around the joints, where there's more wear and tear. But then the joints get red and swollen too, more so for others than for me. And the joint pain goes away with treatment, while the neuropathy in the feet seems harder to get rid of. I guess there is some nerve regeneration eventually, but it takes time. And there must be more to the joint pain than just nerve damage. My guesses are all over the map.

05-11-2013, 10:46 AM
...there must be more to the joint pain than just nerve damage. My guesses are all over the map.

I stumbled onto this article...
Thought it would be nice to share, because it confirms what we were talking about (rarely deforming)


Musculoskeletal symptoms

Musculoskeletal symptoms are common. Arthralgias are usually polyarticular and symmetric, affecting small and large joints.
Arthritis can also occur, and it typically affects large joints, but it is rarely deforming.

Medscape: Medscape Access (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/332622-clinical)

annekat
05-11-2013, 12:49 PM
I stumbled onto this article...
Thought it would be nice to share, because it confirms what we were talking about (rarely deforming)


Musculoskeletal symptoms

Musculoskeletal symptoms are common. Arthralgias are usually polyarticular and symmetric, affecting small and large joints.
Arthritis can also occur, and it typically affects large joints, but it is rarely deforming.

Medscape: Medscape Access (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/332622-clinical) Thanks, Chris! I haven't heard the work "arthralgias" before.... sort of sounds like something between arthritis and neuralgia. Another one to look up.

annekat
05-11-2013, 12:52 PM
According to my brief search, arthralgia just means joint pain and can have many causes. I'm too tired to pursue it further right now! The "rarely deforming" part of what you posted is interesting, though.

Alysia
05-11-2013, 01:35 PM
Arthritis can also occur, and it typically affects large joints, but it is rarely deforming.



at least WE have something not deforming...:wink1:

annekat
05-11-2013, 06:18 PM
at least WE have something not deforming...:wink1: Yeah, nice to see Weggies catching a break somewhere!