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View Full Version : Differnece between P Anca Vasculitis and Wegners?



maria garcia
04-25-2011, 02:55 PM
Differnece beween PAnca Vasculitis and Wegners?

pberggren1
04-25-2011, 04:12 PM
I have no idea.

Sangye
04-26-2011, 08:46 AM
P-ANCA = Microscopic polyangiitis (MPA)-- affects small blood vessels; vasculitis without granulomas

C-ANCA = Wegener's/ Granulomatosis with polyangiitis (GPA)--affects small and medium blood vessels; granulomas + vasculitis

They are treated the same.

Chris G
04-26-2011, 09:42 AM
However, you can be p-anca positive, and have Wegener's. It's rare, but does happen. Lucky, lucky ME for example!

Sangye
04-26-2011, 09:52 AM
Yes, you are unique for sure! :smile1:

Chris G
04-26-2011, 10:04 AM
Hmmmm, I'm sure you meant that in the best possible way!!:flapper:

Sangye
04-26-2011, 10:11 AM
Oh, LOL I didn't realize it could be taken in a sarcastic way! D'oh!

drz
04-26-2011, 10:27 AM
Do most people with GPA have granulomas or know where they are located? I think I was told I may have on in middle ear that wiped out my hearing and balance but don't think it was every confirmed with a CT scan or MRI or whatever they would use to confirm its presence.

Sangye
04-26-2011, 10:35 AM
I don't know. But I'm not gonna call it GPA. Too confusing. And I think the name stinks. :flapper:

pberggren1
04-26-2011, 10:42 AM
I really don't care where the granulomas are in me. All I know is that this disease stinks ASS.

nagesh
04-26-2011, 05:55 PM
I read some where in vf site a research doctor mentioned relapse rate in p-anca is less when compared to c-anca

gwenllian111
04-26-2011, 06:40 PM
I really don't care where the granulomas are in me. All I know is that this disease stinks ASS.

They've never found granuloma's in me. I've had a tracheal biopsy, and lung and kidney biopsies before - but nothing!

delorisdoe
04-26-2011, 07:58 PM
Do most people with GPA have granulomas or know where they are located? I think I was told I may have on in middle ear that wiped out my hearing and balance but don't think it was every confirmed with a CT scan or MRI or whatever they would use to confirm its presence.


call it what ever you want...its all the same disease and if i had my way id never read the work weggie again. remindes me of carrot sticks and i hate carrot sticks.

Sangye
04-27-2011, 12:18 AM
I've only had a couple of small lung granulomas. My lungs prefer to hemorrhage, which is the vasculitis aspect.

Dr Seo told me once that Weggies tend either towards granulomas or vasculitis--that one will be predominant. Those with granulomas are easier to treat and get into remission. The vasculitis-types tend to be refractory to treatment. The rtx studies showed that rtx was better than ctx at treating vasculitis types, which was particularly great news for many of us.

maria garcia
04-29-2011, 03:43 AM
What is rtx and ctx?

JanW
04-29-2011, 03:44 AM
rituxan and cytoxin.

pberggren1
04-29-2011, 03:45 AM
Rtx is Rituxan or Rituximab. It is a biological drug that targets b cells and is big gun like ctx to get Wegs into remission.

Ctx is Cytoxan or Cyclophosphamide. It is chemo. It is the other big gun to get Wegs into remission.

maria garcia
04-29-2011, 03:49 AM
They've never found granuloma's in me. I've had a tracheal biopsy, and lung and kidney biopsies before - but nothing!

How have you been able to get your body into riemesion without the immuno suppresants? what was your first sypmtom?

NicShaf
04-29-2011, 04:57 AM
Dr Seo told me once that Weggies tend either towards granulomas or vasculitis--that one will be predominant. Those with granulomas are easier to treat and get into remission. The vasculitis-types tend to be refractory to treatment. The rtx studies showed that rtx was better than ctx at treating vasculitis types, which was particularly great news for many of us.

This is very interesting, how would we know if the vasculitis or the granulomas are more predominant in each of us? Do our symptoms point towards one or the other?

chrisTIn@
04-29-2011, 08:16 AM
Do most people with GPA have granulomas or know where they are located? I think I was told I may have on in middle ear that wiped out my hearing and balance but don't think it was every confirmed with a CT scan or MRI or whatever they would use to confirm its presence.

I think they need the granulomas in a biopt, to confirm GPA/Wegener's diagose.
My doc said that if he could have 'all of me' he surely would be able to show the presence of granulomas.
Where that would be, he couldn't say.

drz
04-29-2011, 08:30 AM
I think they need the granulomas in a biopt, to confirm GPA/Wegener's diagose.
My doc said that if he could have 'all of me' he surely would be able to show the presence of granulomas.
Where that would be, he couldn't say.
My kidney biopsy confirmed the disease. They said it was full of Wegener's but I assumed they meant evidence of vasculitis that was causing bleeding since there was blood in my urine.

chrisTIn@
04-29-2011, 08:45 AM
My kidney biopsy confirmed the disease. They said it was full of Wegener's but I assumed they meant evidence of vasculitis that was causing bleeding since there was blood in my urine.

Well, vasculitis or granulomas, I think if you have Wegener's, you in general have both.
I mean, it's 'ANCA-positive vasculitis' or Wegener's Granulomatosis.
If you have Wegener's (GPA, sorry Sangye), your small and medium sized vessels are infected,
and as a result of the infection, you develope granulomas, that is to say, the tissue of your vessels becomes 'granulomatose'. At least, that is what I understood from all the talking, the reading and the thinking...

The vessels degenerate, and may even 'fall apart', what is the case when you really have organ- damage, or when you develope the well-known 'saddle-nose', because of degenerating, granulomatosing (falling apart into little pieces) tissue.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is, in general, the process that we all more or less, suffer from...

Mitch
04-29-2011, 01:59 PM
It DOES truly SUCK!!!!! Ok, that was my scream for the night!!! Happy for all of you who can compose yourselves better than I. Danell (Mitch's wife)
:w00t:

Trudy
09-10-2011, 11:51 AM
P-ANCA = Microscopic polyangiitis (MPA)-- affects small blood vessels; vasculitis without granulomas

C-ANCA = Wegener's/ Granulomatosis with polyangiitis (GPA)--affects small and medium blood vessels; granulomas + vasculitis

They are treated the same.

I find this very confusing. My blood tests say ANCA- MPO and ANCA- PR3, both are usually positve. I do have a lung nodule, brain MRI shows sinus involvement, stage 3 kidney disease, and some other problems. I have not had any biopsies. My doctor just says vasculitis - can you have both types? Do you happen to know how high the ANCA factors(scores?) can get?

Stephanie78
09-16-2011, 03:28 AM
Rtx is Rituxan or Rituximab. It is a biological drug that targets b cells and is big gun like ctx to get Wegs into remission.

Ctx is Cytoxan or Cyclophosphamide. It is chemo. It is the other big gun to get Wegs into remission.

Ok Phil, you and I had this conversation before concerning RTX (Facebook I believe). But here is where it is confusing to me...When John had BOTH RTX treatments (They called it Rituximab) on the IV bag it said "CHEMO". So I made reference to the infusion Dr who had come in to hook him up and they stated that it is a form of a chemo???

Not sure what to make of that!

pberggren1
09-16-2011, 07:45 AM
Ok Phil, you and I had this conversation before concerning RTX (Facebook I believe). But here is where it is confusing to me...When John had BOTH RTX treatments (They called it Rituximab) on the IV bag it said "CHEMO". So I made reference to the infusion Dr who had come in to hook him up and they stated that it is a form of a chemo???

Not sure what to make of that!

I am quite certain that rtx is not a classed as a chemo drug. I have asked my doc that a few times.

Psyborg
09-16-2011, 08:48 AM
Technically it is an monoclonal antibody. But it is considered a chemotherapy treatment I believe as well.

Sangye
09-16-2011, 12:22 PM
Rtx is not a chemotherapy drug, but since it's used to treat Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma they might store it with other chemo drugs. When a nurse administers chemo, s/he has to take many precautions-- wear certain gloves, throw away the IV bag in special waste, etc.... None of that is necessary with rtx.

vdub
09-16-2011, 01:32 PM
I have one of those darned granulomas.... I still have parts of it floating around near the now-dead pituitary....

http://www.wasem.com/wg/granuloma.jpg
Yeap, that's me!

Brooke
09-16-2011, 11:34 PM
When I had my infusions, my Rituxan bag said "Chemo" on it as well. The nurses wore 2 pair of gloves and a cover up over their scrubs.. I also had MRSA on my record at the time so that could be why they used extra pre-caution.

Sangye
09-17-2011, 12:19 AM
I am 1000% certain those precautions were not for rtx. Chemo drugs cannot be administered in the regular Infusion Clinic at JHU, where I get my rtx infusions. They're not set up to handle proper disposal, etc....

It had to be the MRSA, Brooke.

Funny story: When I was first treated for Wegs with oral ctx, I wound up back in the hospital with complications. The morning nurse came in to give me my a.m. meds and was all suited up with the heavy duty rubber gloves, etc.... She said it was necessary because I was on chemo. I told her it wasn't nearly as potent as IV chemo and it wasn't necessary just to give me one pill. When my doctor came in later I told him and he cracked up laughing.

delorisdoe
09-17-2011, 12:30 AM
I have one of those darned granulomas.... I still have parts of it floating around near the now-dead pituitary....

http://www.wasem.com/wg/granuloma.jpg
Yeap, that's me!

MY what a big brain you have vdub

Brooke
09-17-2011, 01:50 AM
Funny story Sangye! I guess I would rather them be over cautious than under :)
When I did my infusions this year, the lady at the check in counter called it my IV Therapy. I like that name! Sound better than Rituxan Infusion.

pberggren1
09-17-2011, 02:51 AM
Ya, the nurses here knew that rtx was not chemo even without me telling them all about it.

I got my infusions in the Dialysis room.

delorisdoe
09-18-2011, 03:00 AM
I got my igg infusions in the chemo room. Not that anyone asked.

Sangye
09-18-2011, 10:15 AM
You can get non-chemo infusions in the chemo room, you just can't get chemo infusions in the non-chemo rooms. :wink1:

delorisdoe
09-18-2011, 10:37 AM
ya, like I said, off topic. :smile1: