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Sangye
10-19-2010, 12:52 AM
Many of us take acid-blockers (aka proton-pump inhibitors, PPI's) because of pred. With pred doses over 10mg it's absolutely necessary to take them, since pred is damaging to the stomach lining. Below 10mg, it's very individual.

However, if one is not taking pred you should use caution when taking PPI's. Unless you're taking a drug that causes excess acid, PPI's create a host of problems. I received this info from a JHU newsletter today about chronic use of PPI's. This pertains directly to us, as osteoporosis is already a risk for us. Holistic docs have been saying this since PPI's came on the market.

Johns Hopkins: Digestive Disorders on risk of osteoporosis from proton pump inhibitors (http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/alerts/digestive_health/JohnsHopkinsDigestiveDisordersHealthAlert_3633-1.html?ET=johnshopkins_blog:e42599:1128208a:&st=email&st=email&s=RGH_101018_005)

marta
10-19-2010, 01:17 AM
Hey Sangye,

I'm going to visit my doc on Wednesday and had acid blockers as one of my questions. I'm on 12.5mg since yesterday - woo hooo- but now after reading this I'm wondering if I should even bother. I've not been on them since I started treatment, but I imagine if everything goes smoothly, I'll be on 10mg within two weeks. I haven't had any stomach problems, but things could be getting 'done' on the inside without me knowing I suppose. I had some stomach pain in the last couple/few days very sporatic and kinda lower than the actual stomach, but who knows, things come and go with this gig, so unless they're there for longer I've decided I won't worry and stress about it. Otherwise I'd be worried all the time.

What are your thoughts oh wise one? I fully say that with respect (I know how it's easy to misinterpret stuff when you're not face to face) I was thinking about this last night as I was having some gut pain, and poof, I wake up and there you are writing about it.

Jack
10-19-2010, 02:04 AM
To a greater extent I use the drugs that I need regardless of potential side effects since I can read horror stories about pretty much everything I take. That is not to say that I don't go out of my way to keep informed about these effects and try to minimise my intake of all drugs. Perhaps this is part of my "live for today" philosophy and perhaps I am now suffering for it. However, there is a lot to be said for quality of life today traded against the possibility of problems in the future.

Odd that the article should recommend the use of bisphosphonate drugs with all we know about their side effects!

elephant
10-19-2010, 02:22 AM
I take nexium three times a week, because I know this drug has many side effects. I have to take it, every time I stop taking it I get GI symptoms back. Thanks for the information Sangye.

freakyschizogirl
10-19-2010, 05:11 AM
Sangye to the rescue again...You saved me with this one!!

Although my docs did give me the look of a hypocondriac...and that i was just making a fuss. I am 25 and not about to wreck my stomach fighting wegs in my nose. Whats the point in putting the wegs into remission and then have stomach problems?

JanW
10-19-2010, 07:23 AM
That's very interesting Sangye. I was using protonix daily and for years as part of treating the 'asthma' I turned out not to have (doc thought I had GERD also, and the drug is frequently prescribed to asthmatics, as I understand it). Of course now I have severe osteoperosis, and I probably only used pred half a dozen times in the last six or seven years.

Sangye
10-19-2010, 07:32 AM
Hey Sangye,

I'm going to visit my doc on Wednesday and had acid blockers as one of my questions. I'm on 12.5mg since yesterday - woo hooo- but now after reading this I'm wondering if I should even bother. I've not been on them since I started treatment, but I imagine if everything goes smoothly, I'll be on 10mg within two weeks. I haven't had any stomach problems, but things could be getting 'done' on the inside without me knowing I suppose. I had some stomach pain in the last couple/few days very sporatic and kinda lower than the actual stomach, but who knows, things come and go with this gig, so unless they're there for longer I've decided I won't worry and stress about it. Otherwise I'd be worried all the time.

What are your thoughts oh wise one? I fully say that with respect (I know how it's easy to misinterpret stuff when you're not face to face) I was thinking about this last night as I was having some gut pain, and poof, I wake up and there you are writing about it.
Are you having any other symptoms like heartburn or indigestion? Burping up acid? Any cough or sore throat that's not due to Wegs or a cold? If not, you probably don't have a problem. To my knowledge, pred doesn't do silent damage like NSAIDs do. You should ask your doc to confirm that. S/he may say GERD can be asymptomatic, but that's not true.

You're wise not to worry about every symptom that pops up. Many come and go. I wish I were better at that! :biggrin1:

Sangye
10-19-2010, 07:36 AM
That's very interesting Sangye. I was using protonix daily and for years as part of treating the 'asthma' I turned out not to have (doc thought I had GERD also, and the drug is frequently prescribed to asthmatics, as I understand it). Of course now I have severe osteoperosis, and I probably only used pred half a dozen times in the last six or seven years.

Wow, another piece of that puzzle solved. I'm sorry the info was too late to stop the damage, but at least you can avoid more.

jola57
10-19-2010, 06:43 PM
You can't win them all, for us sufferers not taking Nexium and the like is not an option. I tried a few times and by the end of next day paid up in spades, heartburn from hell.

Sangye
10-20-2010, 12:50 AM
If you aren't on pred (or another acid-producing drug) there are natural remedies for heartburn that actually correct the underlying cause. I'll post them along with an explanation of why acid-blockers are the exact wrong thing to do for someone in that situation. It might take a few days to get to it-- got some stuff that needs my attention.

Palmyra
10-20-2010, 08:48 AM
Please do get back to us on this subject Sangye, as it applies to many. Thanks for being one of our resident researchers:thumbup:

chrisTIn@
12-29-2010, 11:38 PM
Just today I saw this thread...
I've been using Omeprazol 20 mg. since august of this year.
(My vasculitis-specialist prescribed them).

I talked it over with the pharmacist.
I used to take one pill if I had trouble with 'reflux',
and I thought that was allright.
But the pharmacist said this medication was also to prevent stomach-problems,
so she recommended that I'd take them more often, that is to say...every day.
When I read about the osteoperose-stuff, I'm not so sure if I should take these pills daily... :ohmy:

Sangye
12-30-2010, 01:48 AM
Are you on pred? It's necessary to take it if you're on higher doses of pred. For some people even 5-10mg pred is enough to need it.

Jack
12-30-2010, 01:54 AM
I take it on a daily basis and can't really do without it or I get reflux problems. Protecting your stomach is important and 25 years of pill taking has left mine very sensitive when it used to be bullet proof.

Sangye
12-30-2010, 02:38 AM
Acid blockers protect the stomach when you're taking certain meds (eg pred), but they damage the system otherwise. Having reflux doesn't necessarily mean you need an acid blocker. For most people (not on pred) reflux means they lack enough HCl (the acid your stomach normally produces). MDs say too much acid causes reflux. They are partly right, but they're not addressing the type of acid that causes problems.

Here's how it works:

1) You have an HCl deficiency due to a hiatal hernia (will describe it another time) and/or poor diet. VERY common.

2) When foods--especially protein-- enter the stomach they won't be properly broken down by the insufficient acid. They begin to putrify.

3) This putrifying food releases Organic acid (OA)-- a different acid than HCl. The stomach is only protected against HCl, so the OA burns the stomach. OA is the problem acid, not HCl.

4) If there is a hiatal hernia the OA can escape up into the esophagus where it burns the tissue. This is acid reflux.

5) With or without a hiatal hernia, you are left with stomach pain. You take an antacid and it relieves the pain. However, the antacid works against ALL the acid-- the good HCL and the bad OA. So now you have even less HCl!

6) The classic pattern is that you take occasional antacids, but soon find they aren't enough. Doubling it works for awhile, then that stops working. You take more and more. Finally you need to take an acid-blocker just to cope. Then that isn't enough and you need Nexium ("the next generation" acid-blocker). This all happens because you are digging a bigger and bigger hole with your pH.

Drugs like pred create OA and if you don't block the acid you will burn holes in your stomach very quickly. So acid-blockers are a necessary evil if you're on pred. If you're not on pred and need an acid-blocker to get by, it's important to see a holistic doc to find a solution. Acid-blockers prevent proper nutrient absorption and wreak havoc on your health.

Acid-blockers also create "rebound hypersecretion" of stomach acid if you stop them, which can continue for 2 months. This is why many people get pain right away if they stop them. It doesn't mean they need to stay on them.

elephant
12-30-2010, 04:37 AM
My doctor has me take Nexium 40 mg every three days, just because of what Sangye just stated. I am taking 5 1/2 mg of prednisone now. I still have GI issues but I can live with them.

Minneapolismark
12-31-2010, 04:49 AM
Having Wegener's is like playing biological "Wack a Mole!" One problem pops up and you wack it, only to have two more pop up elsewhere. :w00t:

Sangye
12-31-2010, 05:37 AM
LOL I call it that all the time! Sure feels like it.

freakyschizogirl
01-02-2011, 12:31 AM
Having Wegener's is like playing biological "Wack a Mole!" One problem pops up and you wack it, only to have two more pop up elsewhere. :w00t:

So true!! Its like cutting your nose off to spite your face!! Cant win either way.